A very useful PSA

[lucusloc]

Rocksett is still better. Has a higher temperature threshold, holds stronger, yet still removes with heat and water.

Holds stronger? Most of the specs I have seen for Rocksett list it as under 100 ft-lbs for my thread diameter. It does seem to vary from source to source but a few of them have it down to as low as 30 ft-lbs. That is a far cry from the 220 ft-lbs the (off-brand) loctight claims to hold.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

The crush washer is for sealing and holding. Shims are for alignment.

And they are Mil-Spec!

 

[Koda]

Either way I am just following manufacture advice; shims, high torque and a thread holding compound of some sort. They did not specify which one

Thats odd they dont specify the threadlock compound... in most cases its blue loctite, is secure, but removable (although Im not certain what its temp rating is). Are the wrench flats on your brake accessable with the silencer installed? If so you can just put a wrench on that to remove the silencer without moving or taking the brake with it.

 

[Nosferatu]

Holds stronger? Most of the specs I have seen for Rocksett list it as under 100 ft-lbs for my thread diameter. It does seem to vary from source to source but a few of them have it down to as low as 30 ft-lbs. That is a far cry from the 220 ft-lbs the (off-brand) loctight claims to hold.

You're only torquing the damn thing to ~30 ft-lbs. (You are, right? )

Not an expert section, just from my general understanding of adhesives and fasteners in machined parts:

The number degrades when heat is applied to the equation (under fire). Rocksett maintains it's hold at higher temps. It also survives those heat cycles better, while additionally adding some bit of anti-seize against dissimilar metals.

Loctite is mostly for relatively static heat applications, not for the cooling and heating cycles that a barrel operates under.

Does that mean loctite won't work? Obviously not. It's not the better of the available options though.

 

[lucusloc]

Thats odd they done specify the threadlock compound... in most cases its blue loctite, is secure, but removable (although Im not certain what its temp rating is). Are the wrench flats on your brake accessable with the silencer installed? If so you can just put a wrench on that to remove the silencer without moving or taking the brake with it.

They are only accessible with a thin wrench when the suppressor is on. I already have another thread about that. I was just trying to simplify the setup as much as possible. This way I only have to carry a strap wrench for the worst case scenario and I do not have to worry about anything else. I still plan to keep doing it this way as it does work as intended. I just need to not be dumb and pay attention to what I am doing when putting it together.

Now I can certainly see wanting to go with a less semi-permanent solution. I am making a rather strong commitment to the whole setup, but I guess this little screwup is lettimg me practice undoing this setup to prove that it indeed is only semi-permanent.

I have been researching the solvent issue while we have been chatting in this thread, and I think I may pass on that. There is debate on how hard it is on the finish. It seems ok enough it you just spray it on and clean up after you are done, but letting it sit to soak may attack the metal. I am not sure I am willing to risk that. I am probably just going to bite the bullet, disassemble the fore end and grab a big cheater bar. I was hoping to be lazier than that, but c'est la vie.

 

[Nosferatu]

They are only accessible with a thin wrench when the suppressor is on. I already have another thread about that. I was just trying to simplify the setup as much as possible. This way I only have to carry a strap wrench for the worst case scenario and I do not have to worry about anything else. I still plan to keep doing it this way as it does work as intended. I just need to not be dumb and pay attention to what I am doing when putting it together.

Now I can certainly see wanting to go with a less semi-permanent solution. I am making a rather strong commitment to the whole setup, but I guess this little screwup is lettimg me practice undoing this setup to prove that it indeed is only semi-permanent.

I have been researching the solvent issue while we have been chatting in this thread, and I think I may pass on that. There is debate on how hard it is on the finish. It seems ok enough it you just spray it on and clean up after you are done, but letting it sit to soak may attack the metal. I am not sure I am willing to risk that. I am probably just going to bite the bullet, disassemble the fore end and grab a big cheater bar. I was hoping to be lazier than that, but c'est la vie.

Stop typing these essays and go get than damn thing off!!

 

[lucusloc]

You're only torquing the damn thing to ~30 ft-lbs. (You are, right? )

Not an expert section, just from my general understanding of adhesives and fasteners in machined parts:

The number degrades when heat is applied to the equation (under fire). Rocksett maintains it's hold at higher temps. It also survives those heat cycles better, while additionally adding some bit of anti-seize against dissimilar metals.

Loctite is mostly for relatively static heat applications, not for the cooling and heating cycles that a barrel operates under.

Does that mean loctite won't work? Obviously not. It's not the better of the available options though.

Recommended torque for the shims is 80 ft-lbs. The manufacturer is expecting you to abuse the thing, as it is designed to live inside a suppressor for most of its life. You want the muzzle device to stay put even if the suppressor threads seize, which is a known thing they can do. None of this seems unreasonable to me, even if it way beyond the specs for a normal muzzle device. It's just a different, much harsher environment.

That is an interesting observation about the Rocksett. I was advised that high temp loctight was the way to go for a near permanent application in a hot environment, but that was in a different context to this use case. It does seem like applicable advice here though, as it is very unlikely that the end of the barrel will ever get to the 450F that would be a problem for the loctight, at least under normal use (450 is a solid yellow temper color for bare metal, which seems pretty extreme for the end of a barrel). Maybe I will grab my temperature probe and test that theory, see how hot things get after dumping a few mags through the setup.

 

[lucusloc]

Stop typing these essays and go get than damn thing off!!

Typing essays seems like a lot less work than getting the breaker bar. Let me procrastinate while I work up the will to do that

 

[TTSX]

Sigh.... Don't drink and gunsmith.

 

[Nosferatu]

Recommended torque for the shims is 80 ft-lbs. The manufacturer is expecting you to abuse the thing, as it is designed to live inside a suppressor for most of its life. You want the muzzle device to stay put even if the suppressor threads seize, which is a known thing they can do. None of this seems unreasonable to me, even if it way beyond the specs for a normal muzzle device. It's just a different, much harsher environment.

I get it. I run everything suppressed. Never torqued one past 30...I think. Kinda want to check now.

That is an interesting observation about the Rocksett. I was advised that high temp loctight was the way to go for a near permanent application in a hot environment, but that was in a different context to this use case. It does seem like applicable advice here though, as it is very unlikely that the end of the barrel will ever get to the 450F that would be a problem for the loctight, at least under normal use (450 is a solid yellow temper color for bare metal, which seems pretty extreme for the end of a barrel). Maybe I will grab my temperature probe and test that theory, see how hot things get after dumping a few mags through the setup.

Could be right. I'm not an engineerologist. It's just what I was taught by some who have done it longer than I had spun around the sun. I'm not against your reasons or anything, just sharing.

If I didn't want it to move, I'd weld it, but not everyone has the capability.

 

[TTSX]

Typing essays seems like a lot less work than getting the breaker bar. Let me procrastinate while I work up the will to do that

Hit the gym, build up some calluses and yank the sucker off. Don't need a breaker bar if you ain't got noodly girl arms. Just a good ol wrench will do

 

[Nosferatu]

Hit the gym, build up some calluses and yank the sucker off. Don't need a breaker bar if you ain't got noodly girl arms. Just a good ol wrench will do

Yours spin off from pure fear.

 

[TTSX]

Yours spin off from pure fear.

I didn't spend hours choking chickens to have stuck muzzle brakes

 

[Nosferatu]

I didn't spend hours choking chickens to have stuck muzzle brakes

That's for clucking sure.

 

[Koda]

Do most suppressors attach only directly to the barrel? Seems odd to me a suppressor would have an issue taking the muzzle brake adapter with it for maintenance etc. when the thin wrench would hold the brake. Isn't the idea behind this "plan b" to switch between a suppressor and just a brake, so it would seem regular removal to keep the threads from carbon buildup would be an expected and simple maintenance routine?

 

[Nosferatu]

Do most suppressors attach only directly to the barrel? Seems odd to me a suppressor would have an issue taking the muzzle brake adapter with it for maintenance etc. when the thin wrench would hold the brake. Isn't the idea behind this "plan b" to switch between a suppressor and just a brake, so it would seem regular removal to keep the threads from carbon buildup would be an expected and simple maintenance routine?

It's not uncommon for them to get stuck after shooting. The combination of heat cycling and carbon build up can get in the threads between the suppressor and muzzle device and cause stickage.

I do wish they wouldn't have standardized on RH threads on barrels (for us Colonials, anyway). The whole problem could be negated with a LH thread.

 

[Flopsweat]

It's not uncommon for them to get stuck after shooting. The combination of heat cycling and carbon build up can get i the threads between the suppressor and muzzle device and cause stickage.

I do wish they wouldn't have standardized on RH threads on barrels (for us Colonials, anyway). The whole problem could be negated with a LH thread.

This is what tri-lug mounts are for.

 

[PORSCHE928S4]

I only go blue tops unless it a fubar operation and go all in with the marine JB weld and there is no coming back !

 

[Flopsweat]

I only go blue tops unless it a fubar operation and go all in with the marine JB weld and there is no coming back !

To be fair, JB Weld has a lower melting point than steel. How much lower I don't recall at the moment...

 

[Nosferatu]

JB weld and there is no coming back !

Wanna bet?