30-30 outperforms .308 and 30-06 at 100yds?

[Koda]

Like who has time to investigate these kinds of details... it must be great being a writer for a hunting magazine yet these caliber discussions never end. I occasionally get sucked into these gun/hunting rabbit holes anyways cause I like hunting so I took the click bait.... besides, who doesn't want to read about lever guns.

Although I agree the 30-30 is an effective round I'm skeptical of their claim it penetrates more than the 308 or 30-06 at 100yds. Since I love the 30-30 tell me this its better. In my experience any of these calibers will get a pass thru on a deer and probably on an elk too, again... at 100yds I dont think either of these calibers matter but out of curiosity.... Does a bullet driven at a higher velocity penetrate less at close range than the same bullet driven at lower velocities?

In short the article is arguing that within the practical range of a 30-30 it out performs a 308 and 30-06 terminally because....

Quote:

With conventional bullets, the higher velocities of the .308 and .30/06 cause more bullet erosion, which reduces weight, and in turn, penetration.

A .30/30 Is All You Need (If You Know How to Hunt)

The .30/30 has taken elk, moose, bears, and lions. It actually outperforms the .308 and the .30/06 if you're skilled enough to get close.

www.fieldandstream.com

Read More

 

[titsonritz]

Does a bullet driven at a higher velocity penetrate less at close range than the same bullet driven at lower velocities?

100% bullet construction, but yes a higher velocity projectile will expand/deform causing them to "hit the brakes" so to speak. All things equal heavy projectile of modest velocity will penetrate better then light, faster rounds.

But "out perform" is a stretch without specific criteria.

Can't remember who wrote the article but he was saying a modest 45-70 was better that a hotter .458 Win on elephant for this same reason.

 

[Koda]

100% bullet construction, but yes a higher velocity projectile will expand/deform causing them to "hit the brakes" so to speak. All things equal heavy projectile of modest velocity will penetrate better then light, faster rounds.

But "out perform" is a stretch without specific criteria.

I can see how that works, but in this case they were comparing same caliber bullets and similar weights. I just thought it was interesting and dont think it matters at 100yds but I like how they used it to talk up the 3030...

 

[titsonritz]

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/penetration.html

on the other hand...

https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/hunting-cape-buffalo-with-the-45-70-government/

 

[TTSX]

I've seen what a 30-30 will do to game, never seen any other .30 variety in person. I can say at those ranges I've been much more impressed with slower bullets than speedy ones. There's definitely a point when there's too much velocity for an ideal expansion/ weight retention

 

[Koda]

I know that for longer ranges you want a softer bullet due to the velocity loss...
So it does make sense a slower bullet at close range would expand and perform better. I just never thought how it could give an advantage to the ol 3030 over the other two....

 

[TTSX]

I know that for longer ranges you want a softer bullet due to the velocity loss...
So it does make sense a slower bullet at close range would expand and perform better. I just never thought how it could give an advantage to the ol 3030 over the other two....

Getting the majority of the expansion out of the way several inches in, rather than immediately upon impact, I'd imagine. More damage to organs, less to meat

 

[Provincial]

Unless your deer is wearing plate armor, at 100 yards, the 30-30 is "good enough." I do know that 30-06 is overkill on Blacktails at 100 yards or less, and assume that .308 performs in an almost identical fashion.

I also know that we dug two 87 grain 25-20 bullets and a (probably) .38 Special round-nose out of healed wounds of a Blacktail forked horn that my brother took with a 30-30.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

If the deer or elk is killed by a .30-30 , .30-06 or .308 at 100 yards...then there is no "outperforms".
Dead is dead..

I understand that the above is simplistic statement.
I also know that bullet design plays a large role here as well as shot placement.
How you hunt , is very important and something to consider too. .

What I don't understand , given the track record of the 3 cartridges on game is why or how the magazine article got printed.
All three cartridges will work and have worked historically on deer and elk.
That someone got paid to write this article is one reason why I don't subscribe to hunting magazines any longer.

Know your rifle , your rifle's load and your shooting skill...Hunt within those limits.
Andy

 

[Spitpatch]

Having taken big game with all three calibers, but more importantly having congruent experiences with other calibers, I am able to say the author is merely rehashing the fact that a slower bullet expands less upon impact and therefore penetrates better (which MAY result in more reliable kills).

This is the phenomena that precisely enabled more than one PH in Africa to rack up an impressive record of one-shot kills on dangerous game with "little" (slow) Mauser cartridges.

It is also the phenomena that I have discovered when "varmint" grade bullets (of seemingly light construction) are fired out of cartridges that do not produce the speed for which that particular bullet was designed to act like a varmint bullet: In many cases. these bullets at those pedestrian speeds act just like a well-constructed big game bullet, mushrooming predictably and penetrating admirably.

The phenomena can also work in reverse: Sierra's 40gr .224 hollowpoint shot wonderfully out of my Fireball rifle. "Jacklighting" jackrabbits in Montana, multiple confirmed hits in chest cavities resulted in the Jacks just running off. Enough rabbits were recovered and post-mortems done to reveal the little bullet was expanding very little if at all.

Some historical exploration revealed this bullet to be designed when the .220 Swift was in full bloom. The jacket is designed heavy enough to resist atmospheric impact upon exit from the muzzle at over 4000fps. (If you've never seen this happen, multiple little blue-colored starburst fragments trailing smoke indicate your bullet did not get far from your gun.)

At Fireball velocities, the bullet "failed" on chest-shot Jacks.

But claiming a bullet "failed" while standing over a dead animal shot with one is somewhat less than sensical.

 

[Z-PDX]

Gunwriters

Manufacturing drama and controversy since...

...well it's been a long time.

 

[ATCclears]

If the deer or elk is killed by a .30-30 , .30-06 or .308 at 100 yards...then there is no "outperforms".
Dead is dead..

I understand that the above is simplistic statement.
I also know that bullet design plays a large role here as well as shot placement.
How you hunt , is very important and something to consider too. .

What I don't understand , given the track record of the 3 cartridges on game is why or how the magazine article got printed.
All three cartridges will work and have worked historically on deer and elk.
That someone got paid to write this article is one reason why I don't subscribe to hunting magazines any longer.

Know your rifle , your rifle's load and your shooting skill...Hunt within those limits.
Andy

@Z-PDX nailed it. Drama. Artificial controversy. Eyeballs on their article and magazine, which translates to a better story to pull in advertisers.

 

[Stomper]

If the deer or elk is killed by a .30-30 , .30-06 or .308 at 100 yards...then there is no "outperforms".
Dead is dead..

I understand that the above is simplistic statement.
I also know that bullet design plays a large role here as well as shot placement.
How you hunt , is very important and something to consider too. .

What I don't understand , given the track record of the 3 cartridges on game is why or how the magazine article got printed.
All three cartridges will work and have worked historically on deer and elk.
That someone got paid to write this article is one reason why I don't subscribe to hunting magazines any longer.

Know your rifle , your rifle's load and your shooting skill...Hunt within those limits.
Andy

The results are clear.


3 out of 4 deer, elk, and moose prefer getting shot with 300 Winmag over the 30-30 Winnie because of it's unfair advantage over all other rifle rounds.

 

[WillametteWill]

Does a bullet driven at a higher velocity penetrate less at close range than the same bullet driven at lower velocities?

100% bullet construction, but yes a higher velocity projectile will expand/deform causing them to "hit the brakes" so to speak. All things equal heavy projectile of modest velocity will penetrate better then light, faster rounds.

Good question, good answer. We see the same thing in handgun self defense ammo.

Gunwriters

Manufacturing drama and controversy since...

...well it's been a long time.

Great statement. And photography writers, and automotive writers and...

 

[Member 34319]

Henry after the article is issued…

 

[Mark W.]

As a reloader I can make a .308 or 30-06 round behave exactly like a 30-30 round that said I can not make a 30-30 round behave like a .308 or 30.06

 

[TTSX]

As a reloader I can make a .308 or 30-06 round behave exactly like a 30-30 round that said I can not make a 30-30 round behave like a .308 or 30.06

But have you TRIED to??? If not, where's your sense of adventure? Ain't nothin like a 3k ft/sec 30-30 dontchaknow

 

[po18guy]

Like who has time to investigate these kinds of details... it must be great being a writer for a hunting magazine yet these caliber discussions never end. I occasionally get sucked into these gun/hunting rabbit holes anyways cause I like hunting so I took the click bait.... besides, who doesn't want to read about lever guns.

Although I agree the 30-30 is an effective round I'm skeptical of their claim it penetrates more than the 308 or 30-06 at 100yds. Since I love the 30-30 tell me this its better. In my experience any of these calibers will get a pass thru on a deer and probably on an elk too, again... at 100yds I dont think either of these calibers matter but out of curiosity.... Does a bullet driven at a higher velocity penetrate less at close range than the same bullet driven at lower velocities?

In short the article is arguing that within the practical range of a 30-30 it out performs a 308 and 30-06 terminally because....

Quote:

A .30/30 Is All You Need (If You Know How to Hunt)

The .30/30 has taken elk, moose, bears, and lions. It actually outperforms the .308 and the .30/06 if you're skilled enough to get close.

www.fieldandstream.com

.30-30 better at 100 yards? Like adult diapers, it all Depends.

As with YouTube channels and threads in forums, some folks just need to generate a few bucks. There is precious little new, so the old must be dredged up.

 

[Spitpatch]

As to the three calibers (.30-30, .308, and .30-06), I have never become fond of the '06 OR the .308. I never purposefully sought out a gun in either caliber (but ended up with a few and killed some fine game with them).

The .30-30 is a different story. My first highpower: granting me my first deer, my first antelope. Later on, it drew my attention when I acquired a 1948 Marlin 336RC. This gun demonstrated that (if such actually exists) the .30-30 is an "inherently accurate" cartridge.

For Coastal Blacktails in the jungle, I'd take a .30-30 over the big brother calibers: If only for the gun it's usually found in.

 

[Koda]

As to the three calibers (.30-30, .308, and .30-06), I have never become fond of the '06 OR the .308. I never purposefully sought out a gun in either caliber (but ended up with a few and killed some fine game with them).

The .30-30 is a different story. My first highpower: granting me my first deer, my first antelope. Later on, it drew my attention when I acquired a 1948 Marlin 336RC. This gun demonstrated that (if such actually exists) the .30-30 is an "inherently accurate" cartridge.

For Coastal Blacktails in the jungle, I'd take a .30-30 over the big brother calibers: If only for the gun it's usually found in.

100% agree with this. My first rifle was a Marlin and it was all I had to hunt with for many years and like the article I posted, I learned to hunt everything with it including elk and bear. I did borrow my dads old -06 a few times but it was never a favorite and he eventually sold it.