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'Zero tolerance' v. Montana - UPDATED!!!!!

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Dave Workman, Dec 9, 2010.

  1. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    ‘Zero tolerance’ may not always mean zero intelligence

    "...How Montana school authorities handle the case of a 16-year-old high school honors student who ran afoul of the “zero tolerance” policy at Columbia Falls High School just might teach educators a few lessons they won’t learn from school books; lessons about common sense versus rigid insensitivity.

    At least, that’s how things are shaping up at the moment...



    ?Zero tolerance? may not always mean zero intelligence - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com

    Or try this:

    ?Zero tolerance? may not always mean zero intelligence - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2010
  2. spengo

    spengo GLORIOUS CASCADIA Active Member

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    This is somewhat off topic, but what a horrid website. This is the first time I went there without noscript and adblock. Good bubbleguming god. :computer: I can't honestly say it's the worst site I've ever been to, but it's not for lack of trying that's for sure.

    Dave, if I was you, I'd get a different news source.:thumbdown: Browsing that news site is like using AOL. :laugh:
     
  3. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    She brought a gun to school...she's an idiot.
     
  4. MarkAd

    MarkAd Port Orchard Well-Known Member

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    Roit you are full of understanding, NOT!!! Did you not see "honors student" that disproves your "idiot" sttement.

    She unintionaley broke one rule. How many of us have done the same?

    What would you do if she was your daughter and somelone ike like yourself started milinging her as you have done?

    My dad would have kicked my butt for leaving the gun in the car regardless of the rules at school,
     
  5. phathom

    phathom Vancouver, WA Member

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    I for one, being a boyscout during my school years, had unintentionally worn a knife to school (and quickly put it in my backpack once I realized it) or had forgot that I had taken my backpack camping with me and a knife or ammo was still in my backpack when I went to school on Monday.
    After realizing it I took it out after school, but then again we didn't have dogs sniffing around everyday trying to accuse us of being criminals and drug/weapon smugglers/terrorists.
    I think that the punishment should fit the crime, if they happened to accidentally leave something in their car, they shouldn't be punished for that. If they brought it intentionally and brought it for some ill effect, then sure, punish them for that. But come on, a mistake is a mistake. You don't have to screw someones life up for forgetting something once in their lives.
     
  6. capdek

    capdek Oregon Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    A mistake?
    The brainwashing of America - especially our youth - continues. It is now becoming an accepted fact that guns have no place on school grounds under any circumstances - period. But if the 'violator' is an otherwise upstanding individual, and admits their 'mistake', our 'educators' should use 'common-sense' and not punish them too harshly. That's how far we've come now. Think about that for a moment. :(
     
  7. eriknemily

    eriknemily Tillamook County (Cheese!) Member

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    Oh for days bygone when kids took rifles and shotguns to school so they could go hunting as soon they got off the bus in the afternoon.

    Give the kid a break and do something about the loser down the hall whose using drugs or getting his girlfriend pregnant and really wrecking lives.

    I agree the point needs to be driven home for the girl but this was a very harmless mistake that put nobody in danger!
     
  8. MA Duce

    MA Duce Central Oregon Well-Known Member

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    AMEN.... I frequently took my shotgun to school..put it in my locker and then rode the bus home with a friend to go bird hunting. Eye brows were not even raised. Teaching responsibility is just as important as algebra. This young lady, upon remembering her hunting rifle locked in her trunk, notified the school. She could have taken a chance and kept quiet, but she chose the morally correct path. I would hope common sense holds sway here, but has often been proven, common sense isn't common.
     
  9. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    I got my pee-pee stomped on many times now for being "honest". Sure there is some sympathy, but having guns comes with a responsibility. I forgot about rifles in my car on my way to school too. You know what I did? I parked OFF SCHOOL GROUNDS.

    The "she forgot they were there" is hardly a reason for me to be sympathetic to her situation. The fact that she is an honor roll student just tells me she should have known better in the first place!

    So lets turn this situation differently...say it was a male, an average-grading dude that just forgot to take the guns out of his car after a fun day at the range.

    Would you still have the same opinion? It is because you think the rule is stupid or that she should get more leeway because of her academic status?

    Bias anyone?

    She screwed up...now she has to move and go to school somewhere else. Do I think that sucks? Yeah...but that's life.
     
  10. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Whoa, time out!
    Who said she is going to have to move and go to another school?
    I don't think some people read my column that carefully. It's not shaping up that way, and we should know next Monday night or Tuesday morning how this plays out.

    And, if anyone read Marbut's original missive about this, he indicated that students are not allowed to park off campus.

    Since I was never a 16-year-old girl, I don't know how she might have forgotten her rifle was in the trunk, but stuff happens.
     
  11. tonyspdx

    tonyspdx Gresham, OR Member

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    I guess punishment doesnt need to fit the crime with RIOT. I guess the 8th Amendment should not apply to RIOT. Death penalty for all people cought speeding!
     
  12. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    Or when I used to teach Hunter's Safety at an elementary school in Redmond, OR and had the students help me carry in various rifles and shotguns for demonstration purposes.
     
  13. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    Zero tolerance = zero intelligence.
     
  14. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    After my dad retired he took a part time job at the Redmond airport as a security scanner. On one occasion a lady put her bag on the conveyor and my dad saw the outline of a gun in her bag. He datined her, went through the motions and as it turned out she was an FBI agent who overlooked the requirements. She was detained, her supervisor called and she had to go through the required process before being cleared and released which was something like a two day ordeal then. Stupid mistake? Yes. Reprimanded and maybe written up? probably. Banned from flying? - no. Fired from the FBI? Probably not. It was a MISTAKE! Should she suffer the consequences? yes but she does not deserve her life ruined by it or to have it drug out and cost a lot of time and money.
     
  15. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    lol

    You know what, you guys are absolutly right. Since is female, white and a good student, the rules shouldn't apply to her.


    By the way, the schools can have pretty much any rule they want. If they want to expell every student for wearing a red shirt they can; regardless of their race, gender or acedemic status.
     
  16. eriknemily

    eriknemily Tillamook County (Cheese!) Member

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    :confused::confused::confused:

    I don't think Riot is being that ridiculous. The girl did break a rule and as a result she will suffer the consequences. However I still don't think that the consequences should follow the 'zero tolerance' model.
     
  17. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    Rules are rules.
    There's no leeway when somebody is in the country illegally, even if they've been here for 35 years, ever since they were five months old:
    Judge: Deport long-time but illegal Tacoma woman | KATU.com - Portland News, Sports, Traffic Weather and Breaking News - Portland, Oregon - Portland, Oregon | Local & Regional
    Why should a female honor student get a pass on a serious gun crime when Joe Blow wouldn't?
    And IMO, this doesn't constitute "ruining her life," not by a long stretch.
     
  18. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Outcome in Montana should be lesson for educators everywhere


    "..Instead of a Zero Tolerance policy putting Demari DeReu on trial, it is the other way around. The controversy in Columbia Falls has properly put Zero Tolerance to the test, and it flunked.

    "On the other hand, the school board and school administrators, including Superintendent Mike Nicosia get a passing grade. If nothing else, they have set a new high standard for grace under fire. High marks also go to the 150 or so public-minded citizens who turned out on a chilly Monday evening to support Miss DeReu, some coming from great distances. It was reported that a couple of police officers were in the gym at Glacier Gateway Elementary, where the meeting was held. Why? Did they expect the good citizens of Montana to be as irrational as the Zero Tolerance policy they came to challenge?..."



    Outcome in Montana should be lesson for educators everywhere - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com

    Or try this:

    Outcome in Montana should be lesson for educators everywhere - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com
     
  19. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Dave great story. I am glad it came out the way it did.
     
  20. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    that the Federal Law specifically exempts firearms locked in a vehicle on school property. So there was NO "serious gun crime" committed.
    When I go to my grandsons school I leave my gun, ammo, knives, and even my nail clippers hidden and in my locked van. That way I'm in compliance with state and federal laws, just as Ms. DeReu was.