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Exactly my point. I haven't seen the Denver ordinance, and I haven't seen the proposed ATF rules - yet. The devil will be in the details.

I would not be surprised if the intended end result is registration of all guns in our possession, regardless of who manufactured them. At which point it will come down to a matter of compliance.
I dont think there are enough gun owners that care enough to not comply. I think the majority are fine with registering their guns.
 
I do not disagree but see this as very short sighted. The only reason I see for resgistration is ultimate confiscation.
The dilemma is confiscating is not the only reason for registration. Registration does work to prosecute crimes and make it harder for criminals to get guns. Its a double edge sword as gun rights supporters we dont want criminals using guns either.
 
If certain parts have to registered as firearms, according to the ATF, an engineer asks, are they even necessary? What if they are just a block?

Cody Wilson

https://reason.com/video/2022/01/12/cody-wilson-thwarts-another-attempt-to-stop-ghost-guns/



See thread on this:

 
The dilemma is confiscating is not the only reason for registration. Registration does work to prosecute crimes and make it harder for criminals to get guns. Its a double edge sword as gun rights supporters we don't want criminals using guns either.
While there is no dispute that we don't want criminals using, and I would add possessing, guns, I do not see how registration makes or would make it harder for criminals to get guns. As far as acquiring firearms by theft, it would be absurd to argue that the thieves would only steal unregistered firearms and thus registration would reduce the number they obtained by theft. Likewise, I fail to see how registration would assist in prosecution unless it was the registered gun owner who was being prosecuted.
 
While there is no dispute that we don't want criminals using, and I would add possessing, guns, I do not see how registration makes or would make it harder for criminals to get guns. As far as acquiring firearms by theft, it would be absurd to argue that the thieves would only steal unregistered firearms and thus registration would reduce the number they obtained by theft. Likewise, I fail to see how registration would assist in prosecution unless it was the registered gun owner who was being prosecuted.
Because criminals cant just go out and buy a gun. Its much harder to steal, strawman a gun.
This is why Im not confident the feds will allow people to serialise their ghost guns, maybe if registering them is part of the process.
 
Because criminals cant just go out and buy a gun. Its much harder to steal, strawman a gun.
This is why Im not confident the feds will allow people to serialise their ghost guns, maybe if registering them is part of the process.
While not legally, they seem to be able to arm themselves without much difficulty. Allow? You can put serial numbers on your homemade guns if you choose. Only manufacturerers must mark and serialize firearms according to ATF requirements. The question is whether the AFT will try and impose these marking requirements on homebuilders that are not manufacturerers. What I do not see is how forcing us to serialize and register our homemade guns accomplishes anything other than putting us on a federal list for future confiscation. I say federal because the Idaho Constitution prohibits registration of firearms. The states of Colorado, South Dakota, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Florida, Delaware and New Hampshire also prohibit registration of firearms. Only a few states require registration. If my count is correct that is 7 and they are all libtard states. So any requirement to serialize and register our homemade guns would be a major change in the vast majority of states. So if firearms are not registered in the majority of states, how will requiring a few homemade guns to be serialized and registered accomplish anything. The proponents of these measures are trying to convince you to drink the Kool-Aid.
 
A proprietary horizontal mill that can only do a couple things with some pre-canned routines with custom fixtures?

No thanks.

There's plenty of desktop vertical mills out there that can do what this thing does plus everything else your twisted head can think up, with a larger work envelope and isn't constrained to what the maker wants you to machine for the same money.
Any recommendations on alternative setups for those who might be interested?
 
If I am going to be spending thousands on a small CNC machine, I am going to want something that not only does 0-80% firearms, I am going to want something that can do that without proprietary supplies, without proprietary software (i.e., something that I have the code to), and preferably something general purpose so I can make other parts. Otherwise I will stick with purpose made jigs like 5D Tactical and 80% blanks.
 
Any recommendations on alternative setups for those who might be interested?
I have some experience with one of these several years ago when they first came out: https://shop.carbide3d.com/products/nomad-3/nomad-3?variant=32912906354749

It performed well and at the time, had the largest work area in the market of 8"x8", IIRC. It has a 10k spindle, which was great for plastics, but would struggle a bit on aluminum. I had to really lower my spindle feeds to get a good finish on 6061 and not burn up end mills, but it would do it.

This looks like price has come up a bit, but what hasn't?

I haven't kept up with them in the last few years, so I'm sure there are others on the market now. The mini CNC gantry mills are pretty popular now as well.

But temper your expectations with any of these products. None will perform like a proper 10+ HP vertical machining center. You won't be hogging out 6061 at 12k RPM and 300ipm. You can build good parts, it's just going to take a bit longer. You won't be going $100k into debt either though.
 
Just saw this video on the thread

GG3

Not for nothing Ghost Guns is a name sure to draw the wrong kind of attention.






Combine this with additive manufacturing


The concept -
Print out a pretty close part, then CNC for a fine finish.
Is being called hybrid. But that term is far to common.
 
I dont mind serializing either but thats a big if they even allow that option. The issue is the unregistered part. They cant trace a serialized ghost gun, essentially they are no different than unserialized.
The Connecticut law has an agency that assigns serial numbers. That makes them traceable.
 
Seems like someone should come up with a firearms design that has a very simple receiver - like the square stock that an AR-18 is made from. Then going from practically raw material to finished receiver wouldn't take really complex milling steps or 3d printing - just cutting and drilling.
 
The Connecticut law has an agency that assigns serial numbers. That makes them traceable.
Old thread, but iirc in full context I meant "home serialized".... Ive heard some people will put a number on their builds only as a way to get it back if its stolen.... But never as a way to register the gun with the state. Makes sense....
Unless the pass a law that mandates a state issued serial number, im not certain if its possible to overwrite a scribed number.

A state issued serial (like CT) would just simply make building ghost guns impractical (from a legal perspective), might as well just buy a 100% reciever to finish.
 
Seems like someone should come up with a firearms design that has a very simple receiver - like the square stock that an AR-18 is made from. Then going from practically raw material to finished receiver wouldn't take really complex milling steps or 3d printing - just cutting and drilling.
Years ago I came across a pdf print of an 0% AR15 lower made from small chunks of aluminum blocks then it all bolted together. Ugly AF but the individual blocks could all be made with hand tools, and a regulat upper snapped right on....
 
Seems like someone should come up with a firearms design that has a very simple receiver - like the square stock that an AR-18 is made from. Then going from practically raw material to finished receiver wouldn't take really complex milling steps or 3d printing - just cutting and drilling.
It's been done there's the FGC 9 as well as The ARC, and before that was PA Luty
 
Here's your 0% receivers...

1652738411148.jpeg
 
I think that's the crux of "serializing" and the ATF isn't referring to "home serialized" firearms. They are referring to a specifically formatted serialization... applied by a licensed agent... including prefunctory "registration" to make all non/home serialized firearms traceable. Period. To that... I know many law abiding gun owners that would be highly resistant.

"Home" or "owner/self" serialization without registration makes absolutely zero sense for ATF or LE stated purposes... and even less sense to modify ATF rules or laws that would actually be satisified by "home/self serialization".

They can try and call "the list" anything they want (Ie., statistical DB, forensic research, etc)... anything other than "gun owner registry", but have no doubt... it is what it is. A searchable DB (aka: registry) of every firearm and original owner dating back over 50 years and currently containing over a billion gun transaction entries. Regardless of what they choose to name it or what government body is charged with maintaining it, anyone believing that it can't be used for whatever purpose the government might dictate is living in a dream world.

The GG3.. kinda cool, but still seems to be an emerging trend in the industry still in it's infancy. If in fact 0%'s are the new wave of the home build market it won't be long before the competition expands and prices will start to drop.

For now, banning 80%'s and pushing the industry into the 0% realm, all that does is put the 0% cost factor out of the reach of your typical law abiding citizen hobby builder... so... ironically, the only ones that will pump in that kind of start-up cash and produce enough lowers to make it worthwhile will be the criminal elements.

Instead of tracking dumb criminals using traceable accounts buying 80% parts online, LE will be left with the insurmountable effort of trying to track raw 2"x2" aluminum bar stock purchases. Well played!! 🤣
 

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