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Your Thought on Crowning and Muzzle Effects

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by DuneHopper, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. DuneHopper

    DuneHopper Douglas County. Well-Known Member

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    I have wondered awhile what the real affects of the crown. I have done a few only a few and the advice on depth varies.
    Your Thought on Crowning and Muzzle Effects.


    My question to consider are.

    1. Does the crown affect noise ?
    2. Does the crown depth affect accuracy ?
    3. If the crown is fine but other areas at the end barrel are are not perfect does that affect it ?

    Just stuff I have wondered about .

    Thanks.
     
  2. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow Elma, WA Well-Known Member

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    I have heard over time that the crown is to protect the rifeling at the end of the barrel. Whether this is true or not I don't know. By protecting the rifeling it supposedly improves accuracy. It should not make any impact on the noise levels.
     
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  3. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    I've switched to using a recessed target crown cut on a lathe, this is an easy cut and protects the bore at the muzzle from dings which can affect accuarcy
     
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  4. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    I cut the crowns for my personal rifles based on what type of rifle it is.

    For my sporterized military rifles, I usually use a rounded or hunters crown. For a more modern rifle or when I have no other pressing aesthetic issues, I generally cut an 11 degree target crown.

    Do I think an 11 degree crown is more accurate than a recessed target crown or even a hunter crown? Not for my purposes, no. But I enjoy the aesthetics and it's a fairly easy cut on my lathe.

    In direct answer to your questions. 1, I have not noticed a change in noise, but I shoot with plugs and muffs. 2, the depth of the crown has more to do with protecting the crown than practical accuracy. 3, if there were other marks on the end of the barrel, I would probably clean them up, but only because I do the work myself.

    Accuracy is a relative concept. What I consider as accuracy is not what a competition shooter would consider accurate. The crowns I have cut thus far have done the jobs that have been asked of them, regardless of whether it's been a round, recessed, or 11 degree.
     
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  5. DuneHopper

    DuneHopper Douglas County. Well-Known Member

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    I wish I had a lathe, I do most all stuff by hand slow and tedious and fun.
    I have good digital measuring devices so can check everything I need.
    Takes me probably a few hours that takes most a few minutes.
    I have seen some work done on other firearms that looked kinda haggered and is why I had some question wondered if I was being too picky in my firearms.

    Appreciate all the responses.
     
  6. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    All the time it takes on the lathe is set-up. That's pretty true for a lot of machining operations. The cutting and turning is a small portion of getting it right.
     
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  7. DuneHopper

    DuneHopper Douglas County. Well-Known Member

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    With me it measure , measure, measure but I truly enjoy it so if it takes awhile its all good.
    I never like to pay for stuff I can do myself, cars, house, what ever it gives a nice self accomplishment. Of course I envy you guys that get to play with this stuff for a living.
     
  8. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    I do very little of it for a living anymore. I have a license, so I take in occasional work, but being a stay at home dad makes my lead times longer than I'd like.
    I closed my retail shop last year due to Oregon's "recovering" economy (apparently someone forgot to tell parts of the state they were supposed to be recovering). While I go back to school yet again, I am taking care of my boy and keeping a finger in the gunsmithing game. At the very least, I have a few dozen projects I picked up to tinker with to keep me busy in anything resembling down time...
    I won't get rid of my machinery or most of my tools, although I did sell one of my lathes due to space issues.
     
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  9. DuneHopper

    DuneHopper Douglas County. Well-Known Member

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    Most my money is spent on tools that I can't get by without, like head space gauges, a good vice, etc. I have a nice bench and gun vise to work on but most stuff is in a sense manually done. I do study allot and then study more when I do stuff. I tend not to screw up by just taking time and keeping tolerances where they belong. So far no issues with all the stuff ive done, but again its a slow process and a hobby. I hear ya on the job stuff been tough down here I am actually looking as we speak.
     
  10. thorborg

    thorborg portland oregon Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Crowning only has one purpose, that is to debur the bore and the rifling so nothing will interfere with exit of the bullet. if you visualize rough duty, it may be helpful recess the crown area so bumping the barrel tip into things won't peen a bur in the exit hole. surface texture of the face of the crown area only affects aestetics, and the ability to keep it clean. If any importance of the crown face is to be alledged then it would be to keep exit hole perpendicular to the bore to help make the exit of the bullet as equal about its circumference as possible.. which will also even the distrabution of gases. In time, left uncleaned or lightly cleaned, a perpendicular proper crown (recessed or not) will present you with a pretty little star of uniform purportions to satisfy your efforts.
     
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  11. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, that's the one purpose of the crown, but maintaining perpendicularity is the whole game.

    A crowning bullet yaws, because of the asymmetric venting of gases as it emerges. It takes awhile for it to settle down under the torque load and fly straight, and the worse the crown, the longer it's wobbling - actually precessing - until it finally stays pointed the way it's headed.

    I like target crowns because my long guns don't see enough hard use to justify a smooth toroidal "hunter's") crown. That sharp "target" edge makes the gas vent as quick as possible. I never cut one myself, though.
     
  12. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    The last 1" of rifling and the crown have more to do with accuracy then the rest of the barrel. That's why an old rifle that has been messed up with aluminum or worse yet the old steel cleaning rods will shoot like crap. That's why when buying a military rifle you use a muzzle gauge to determine condition. I have a Winchester 1906 that looks like it was used behind a garden tractor to grade gravel driveways then spiffed up with a ball pen hammer and a pipe wrench. Yet the rifling at the end of the muzzle and the crown are in excellent physical condition. And the rifle shoots amazingly well. I have had .22's where it looked like the owners in the past used steel cleaning rods and just wore the lands right to the bore for the last inch of the barrel and your lucky to hit a pop can at 25 yards with the POS.

    I am a fan of either the old Winchester flat face crown or an 11 degree target whether it be full width or recessed as on my Savage MKII FVT .22 or Savage model 12 VLP DBM .243win.