Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

Yet another I-594 question

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by SCARed, Dec 4, 2014.

  1. SCARed

    SCARed Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    473
    Likes Received:
    285
    Sooooo, if your going out shooting with friends, and everyone has to do a BGC, I'm assuming everyone has to fill out 4473s. The first question it asks is if the person receiving the gun is the actual purchaser. How would you even answer that since no sale is even being made?

    Furthermore when I go out shooting with friends, there's usually 5-6 of us and there 30+ firearms being used. If we all show up at a gun shop and all 5 of us have the same 30 firearms listed, how's the Feds supposed to deal with that?

    Seems a very effective protest would be to have a large number of people with a large number of firearms all shared and doing BGC/4473 on all. I don't think it would take too long before the Feds say F-U to the state and force the state to do the checks or scrap the whole thing.

    Also, If the state sees that one person is "transferring" a large number of guns frequently, they would investigate and quickly find out that the state is screwing things up by having their own definition of transfer.
     
  2. GUNARCHER

    GUNARCHER Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    269
    I like it---a Cloward/Piven approach.

    Cause the system to breakdown from overload.
     
  3. solv3nt

    solv3nt Portland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,914
    Likes Received:
    1,298
    You aren't reading it correctly....
    (25) "Transfer" means the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.
    http://sos.wa.gov/_assets/elections/initiatives/FinalText_483.pdf

    Unless you are:
    1) Legally hunting
    2) Only temporarily transferring the firearm to a spouse
    3) Transferring a firearm to prevent bodily harm

    You must transfer the firearm to the other individual, in which case, you will need to drive back into town, and do an FFL transfer before your friend can shoot your weapon.
     
  4. SCARed

    SCARed Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    473
    Likes Received:
    285
    I am reading it correctly. You and I are in agreement.

    If you and i are going to go shooting together and we know we will be sharing firearms, we need a BGC to swap firearms. So before we leave we do BGCs. That is what I'm talking about.
     
  5. solv3nt

    solv3nt Portland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,914
    Likes Received:
    1,298
    The problem is this:
    (25) "Transfer" means the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.

    (b) Except as provided in (a) of this subsection, the licensed dealer shall comply with all requirements of federal and state law that would apply if the licensed dealer were selling or transferring the firearm from its inventory to the purchaser or transferee, including but not limited to conducting a background check on the prospective purchaser or transferee in accordance with federal and state law requirements and fulfilling all federal and state recordkeeping requirements.

    (e) The licensed dealer may charge a fee that reflects the fair market value of the administrative costs and efforts incurred by the licensed dealer for facilitating the sale or transfer of the firearm.
    http://sos.wa.gov/_assets/elections/initiatives/FinalText_483.pdf


    My interpretation is that the firearm must be either sold or transferred prior to changing possession of said firearm every time that a firearm moves from the possession of one to another. Therefore, a background check is required whenever the firearm changes possession unless it is granted special provisions from above.
     
  6. solv3nt

    solv3nt Portland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,914
    Likes Received:
    1,298
    (f) The temporary transfer of a firearm (i) between spouses or domestic partners; (ii) if the temporary transfer occurs, and the firearm is kept at all times, at an established shooting range authorized by the governing body of the jurisdiction in which such range is located; (iii) if the temporary transfer occurs and the transferee's possession of the firearm is exclusively at a lawful organized competition involving the use of a firearm, or while participating in or practicing for a performance by an organized group that uses firearms as a part of the performance; (iv) to a person who is under eighteen years of age for lawful hunting, sporting, or educational purposes while under the direct supervision and control of a responsible adult who is not prohibited from possessing firearms; or (v) while hunting if the hunting is legal in all places where the
    person to whom the firearm is transferred possesses the firearm and the person to whom the firearm is transferred has completed all training and holds all licenses or permits required for such hunting,
    provided that any temporary transfer allowed by this subsection is permitted only if the person to whom the firearm is transferred is not prohibited from possessing firearms under state or federal law;
    http://sos.wa.gov/_assets/elections/initiatives/FinalText_483.pdf

    The law specifically exempts temporary transfers during hunting, or while target shooting with a direct family member at a legal shooting range. It can only be assumed that all other transfers are not exempt.
     
  7. Morpheus

    Morpheus Columbia Gorge Anyway, back on the farm.

    Messages:
    1,113
    Likes Received:
    589
    Why not to kind of by-pass this law, all gun owners in Washington apply to be FFLs. Sure you have to do all the paperwork, but that way you can buy and sell them back and forth as inventory items in your log books?

    Just a side suggestion, don't know if this would work or not legally.
     
  8. solv3nt

    solv3nt Portland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,914
    Likes Received:
    1,298
    We'll do it in Oregon...
     
    mjbskwim, SCARed and wence5 like this.
  9. WheatNuts

    WheatNuts Camas, WA Active Member

    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    33
    Or people can grow some bubbleguming balls and not follow this law at all.
     
    Stomper, Quacky88, WilliamIV and 2 others like this.
  10. solv3nt

    solv3nt Portland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,914
    Likes Received:
    1,298
    That goes without saying....
     
  11. 8ball

    8ball WA Quit talkin' and start chalking!

    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    224
    594 also exempts Type 6 FFL holders, which is ammo manufacturers. That is the easiest and cheapest FFL to acquire at $30 per three years.
     
  12. Mongo1

    Mongo1 Santiam Canyon Active Member

    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    164
    I recommend an I 594 sub forum. Put it all in one place. It's spread out too far now. Make it easier for new people and out of state members to follow.
     
  13. CarlMc

    CarlMc Safely north of Seattle Active Member

    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    97
    I don't see where it says that. I do find where it says:
    "Dealer" means a person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail who has, or is required to have, a federal firearms license..." but not FFL's more generically.

    Did I miss something?
     
  14. 8ball

    8ball WA Quit talkin' and start chalking!

    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    224
    Look at the definition of licensed dealer in 13. It refers to the federal code which includes all varieties of FFL except C&R.

    As an FFL, you don't need to do checks.
     
  15. CarlMc

    CarlMc Safely north of Seattle Active Member

    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    97
    New section 3 says that all transfers have to happen through a licensed dealer and undergo a BGC.

    You're right about the dealer definition, but both transferor and transferee must be licensed as you noted.

    The text doesn't appear to address the above possibility, which would be interesting if challenged in court. I can't imagine the Feds nor the state would be thrilled with a whole bunch of Type 6 FFL's coming through.

    Now I'm not sure if the state would have any additional expectations of a type 6 FFL (as of commercial activity, that is.)
     
  16. TacticalDragQueen

    TacticalDragQueen E.WA Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    57
    Easier said than done.
    From here on out, every firearm purchase you make will have a paper trail on it...soon to become a electronic paper trail. If you sell your firearm to your friend (or whatever) and that firearm becomes stolen or he uses it in a crime or worse....then they will just do a simple search thru the UBC database and find you. All future firearms purchases in Washington state will be tied to someone.

    Ofcourse this only applies to us doing it legally and those that fear losing all our 2nd rights.

    We need to repeal this illegal law.
     
  17. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    3,223
    Likes Received:
    2,387
    And if this hasn't been enough of a drain on your gray matter:

    More I-594 fallout as DOL, Revenue issue advisories

    Yesterday’s advisory from the Washington Department of Licensing (DOL), following Thursday’s “Special Notice” from the Department of Revenue on “Tax Implications of Firearms transfers” have raised more questions about what voters handed to gun owners with passage of Initiative 594.


    http://www.examiner.com/article/more-i-594-fallout-as-dol-revenue-issue-advisories
     
  18. cascadianliberty2012

    cascadianliberty2012 DPR Portland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    460
    Just go about your activities normally.

    F.T.G. (I'm sure you all can figure out what that stands for, very applicable to Washington right now)
     
    Mongo1 likes this.
  19. Wayne

    Wayne Near Tacoma Active Member

    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    207
    Well, I think I accidentally broke the law twice so far. First time was at the range on the 4th a guy I know from my club asked me about a gun I was shooting ( he is also in his 60's like me ) I asked him if he wanted to try it and loaded up a mag and handed it to him to try. Second was today, I was looking at a new Kimber at the FFL and asked to see it and was handed the gun and then handed it back to him without thinking. I guess I should have just walked out with it so I would not be breaking the law :confused: I plan on going back with my CZ 75D and see what they will give me on trade and will probably have to break the law to let him take a look at it.
    Was this law really written to make people like me, a guy who is in his 60's,never been arrested ( that thing with an MP back in '71 doesn't count ) and has a CPL, into law breakers ? Cause that is what it is doing.:mad::mad::mad:
     
  20. usagi

    usagi Redmond Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    544
    Likes Received:
    378
    this is not the loophole you're looking for. a type 6 ffl needs to register with the state department under ITAR, $2250/yr even if you don't manufacture any ammo. this is a state deparment regulation, not atf.
     
    CarlMc likes this.