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Yes, I am a Brady Bill statistic.

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by IronMonster, Mar 7, 2015.

  1. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    Well I am a bit embarrassed to say that I received a Deny on my latest "attempted" firearms purchase. Yep, sure enough. My last two transactions prior to this where delayed and those where the first transactions I have had in a number of years. The first one I got a proceed later that same day (about 10 hours later, but still the same day) The delay deal is a drag but it is what it is.

    So in January I applied for my CPL, I got it in the mail on Monday March 2nd. Its issue date is actually listed on there as the 2nd, which I find a little odd since its the day it actually showed up. I was pretty excited that I finally got it and thought "you know what? I am going to go buy me a new handgun!" I mean what better excuse than I "need" something that is appropriate for carry (I have a number of handguns but nothing that would be practical for me to pack around if the need arouse) Ok that's not actually what I thought, It was more "I'll just go look, see what they have, I wont actually buy one, BUT I know exactly what I want, a scandium J frame .357" The last time I had a concealed carry card when I did carry much of the time I packed a 640. I know, Not ideal for you die hard every day guys but I honestly dont have any intention of carrying every day and I just want one because I regret no longer having the 640.

    So I stop in Sportsman's Warehouse, They have a scandium M&P 340 .357...... I say F'it, I'll take it. $721+tax. I tell the guy I will be delayed (the last few where, no reason to expect anything different) Hand over my drivers license and my freshly printed and laminated CPL which I have had in my possession for less than 36 hours. Sure enough, delay.

    So three days go by, I get the call, "Sorry man, you where denied" Whaaaat? I have bought a rifle in the last 60 days and within the last 30 issued a CPL, However apparently I cannot pass a background check.



    So anyway after getting the deny I started doing some research and found this

    http://www.justice.gov/oig/reports/ATF/e0406/exec.htm

    "We found that 69 (35 percent) of the 197 delayed denials and 16 (8 percent) of the 200 standard denials that we sampled were applicants who subsequently were found not to be prohibited from possessing a firearm. This situation occurred for several reasons: (1) the subject's firearm rights had been restored under state law, (2) the subject's prohibition for a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence did not meet the federal criteria, or (3) a protective order had expired or was about to expire."


    So in this department of Justice report it says that 43% of the sampled applicants denied where subsequently found not to be prohibited from possessing a firearm.

    Yes its a small sample size, but 43% seems to be a pretty significant number. Funny how in all the pro background check stuff they never tell you that close to half of all the people "stopped" actually turn out not prohibited from having a firearm.

    Anyway...

    I am now officially one of the "BAD GUY" background check success stories that will be added to the statistics showing how background checks keep guns out of criminals hands.




    See all you guys who wanted a CPL for a private sales before I594, It meant nothing! I have one and cant pass a background check!:rolleyes::rolleyes::s0107:
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
    BradC, AngryRedTicTac, 3MTA3 and 2 others like this.
  2. Who The F R U

    Who The F R U Rainier Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I have a FFL and a SOT.
    Run me in Oregon and I will get delayed or Denied.
    Figure that one out.
     
  3. Scvette

    Scvette Olympia Active Member

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    Time to get a UPIN.
     
  4. Norm0931

    Norm0931 Hillsboro, OR Sgt. Sheep Silver Vendor 2016 Volunteer

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    Make the dealer put your CPL in as a secondary form of ID. The FICS website can take 2 ID options. Also, use your social. This tends to speed up the process in my experience. Obviously some people don't like writing their SSN, but I've noticed that when running backgrounds it tends to make it faster.

    If you want to get auto approved and skip the line, and you don't want to join the military or government, you can do the TSA Pre-Approved Traveler background check.
     
  5. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    I submitted my fingerprints and the voluntary appeal file paperwork a few months ago, I am hoping that the UIPN will solve my issues. When I got the letter back saying they received the file it said they where about 6 months behind on processing voluntary appeal files
     
  6. Scvette

    Scvette Olympia Active Member

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    When I did mine and then got the same letter,that they were 6 months behind,my UPIN showed up a month later. Still can't find a gun I just have to have to try my UPIN,but I was like you sometimes I could just buy and go,then a couple delays,down to I had 2 lowers I bought go past the 3day hold and then the GS released them to me,I got a call from a ATF agent saying I was denied and do I still have the lowers,after about a week the agent said never mind I'm ok. That's when I got my UPIN.
     
    IronMonster likes this.
  7. TCOV

    TCOV OLYMPIC PENINSULA Active Member

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    I have a UPIN and get delayed if the background check is submitted by computer. Always a proceed if submitted by phone.
     
  8. Scvette

    Scvette Olympia Active Member

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    So what do you do,do the computer,get a delay and then have them call it in? Or do you just have them phone in every time ?
     
  9. TCOV

    TCOV OLYMPIC PENINSULA Active Member

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    I prefer the dealer to phone the background in check but some want to just do it by computer. In those cases the dealer has called in to ask about the computer delay and I think they got a short scolding for not waiting then were given a "proceed". Some dealers will not phone in to question a computer delay like Walmart so if time maters ask before making your purchase. I have not dealt with a dealer who would not agree to call after a computer delay yet so don't now how long the delay could take. When they called they questioned why a delay with a UPIN. My guess is the computer program sort of times out as the procedure takes a little longer using UPIN as it involves a transfer on the other end but that is just a guess, they will never say.
     
  10. TCOV

    TCOV OLYMPIC PENINSULA Active Member

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    I have listened to a couple of the background check calls and it seems like the government contractor who takes the call sometimes ignores the UPIN as they can't use it. They have to transfer the call to a real agent who can use the UPIN to access your saved background records. I have heard the dealer remind them to use the UPIN. Just my experience.
     
  11. stoney

    stoney Brush Prairie, WA Member

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    what's a upin?
     
  12. TCOV

    TCOV OLYMPIC PENINSULA Active Member

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    Unique Person Identification Number.
    I got mine several years ago when I received a denial for a purchase and was successful in my appeal of the denial. At that time I think you needed to successfully appeal a denial to get a UPIN. When you request a UPIN you give the FBI? or whoever oversees the background check permission to keep your records open instead of closing them after an approved transfer. When your ffl calls in a background check the person who takes the call is a contractor and cannot access the information that the UPIN has kept open and has to transfer to a real federal agent who uses that number to access that information. Some times it seems to me that the contractor forgets to make the call transfer and if any doubt the ffl should remind them. There is information on the FBI or BATFE website on getting a UPIN. This is the way I understand it but requirements may have changed since I got one.
     
  13. tiggers97

    tiggers97 United States Well-Known Member

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    This would make a great letter-to-editor, or testimony when they bring up "2-billion background check denials" as if every one of them was a Charles Manson just days away from the next massacre.
     
    Capn Jack, Slobray and IronMonster like this.
  14. Classic

    Classic Federal Way WA Well-Known Member

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    If you have a common name then there is a good chance that there is a scumbag with the same name somewhere in the US which is where the UPIN comes in.
    I have been fortunate because I don't have a common name.
    Must be tough being a felon :s0111:
     
  15. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    <- Why there aren't any school shootings in Israel!
    Teacher with long gun slung over her shoulder!!!

    Same here, uncommon first, middle and last so never any deny responses but I do also add my SS # to the 4473.
    Deen
    NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
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    NRA Recruiter
    Defender of Freedom Award
    Washington Arms Collector Member
    Vancouver Rifle & Pistol Club member

    "A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"
     
  16. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Same here...
     
  17. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    I just buy private party. Never any of these problems that way.
     
    JRH Oregon likes this.
  18. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    Sounds great, Don't happen to have a S&W 340 no lock do ya?
     
    Sgt Nambu likes this.
  19. gcban

    gcban Tukwila, WA Active Member

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    Welcome to the club IronMonster! Went thru the same nightmare myself a few years ago( link to thread below). Another guy, same name, not me. Got my deny and it took several months to clear it up and get a UPIN. Ever since than I never get a proceed on the initial first response, always go to further review. Then the UPIN is given, a few more minutes pass and I get a proceed. Even thought you just renewed your WA permit that now goes thru a NICS check, dosent matter. Great system huh? I have an AZ permit also and when I go purchase a long gun in AZ its, show my AZ permit,which waves the NICS backgorund check, MY DL, fill out 4473 and pay. Out the door I go firearm in hand, no phone or computer call needed to NICS. WA permits issued since July 2011 meet that same NICS exemption as AZ but so far our Olympia political BS has prevented it from exempting WA CPL from NICS checks on purchases. I feel your pain! Just get a UPIN, pain in the butt, but at least you USUALLY dont have to make a second trip back to pick up your purchase. Be safe! G

    https://www.northwestfirearms.com/t...one-else-have-this-happen.107561/#post-711747
     
    IronMonster likes this.
  20. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    It does make be feel a bit better to know I'm not the only one. However I am not encouraged by your story of taking 7 months to get a UPIN. I hope it does not drag out that long.

    I suspect I was not denied, but rather I simply was not given a proceed and store policy was to terminate the transaction. I can't imagine Sportsmans being any different policy wise than any other big box store. I am on day 9 of the wait for a rifle from SAA in Tacoma. Same deal, delay and no call back from NICS after the three day window. With I594 they must wait 10 days to sell you the gun without a proceed.