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I understand the concern about authorizing police to use bombs delivered via robot, and I would agree that there should be a fairly strict set of guidelines and protocols governing the use of such a tactic.

When corrections officers do cell extractions of unruly inmates, with pepper spray and teams of guards wearing body armor, they normally videotape the proceedings along with a narrative explaining the force they are about to use and the justification for doing so. This is in order to protect themselves from a lawsuit after the fact.

The same sort of precautions could be used in the case of a robot delivering a bomb. And in the case involving the Dallas shooter, the justification for doing so is self-evident. He was a heavily armed active shooter who had already inflicted multiple casualties and refused all demands to surrender. Lethal force was clearly justified, therefore the type of lethal force is irrelevant.
 
At the police review hearing.........

Q: "Why did you feel it was necessary to use one pound of C-4 to blow the shooter up?"

A: "Because we didn't have any more than that."
 
My nomination for funniest post of the day :s0040::s0151::s0140:

I agree

what is a little spider going to do?













ueVetV7.jpg :s0140::s0140::s0095::s0095::s0095::s0095::s0095:
 
I do not see Law Enforcement being "militarized" one bit. Weapons haven't changed all that much in the last 116 years! Sure they have Semi auto pistols, sure, they have AR's now, but that is about as close to Military arms as we get! Tactics, Please! MRAP's sure, A surplus tool for SWAT to use for it's own protection! They have had Armor for many years, and the MRAP is cheep for dept's that don't have a big budget! As to the tool used to end a situation? what ever it takes, end of story! The difference in the Police and the Military? The Mil would have sent in two bigger bombs Just to make sure the perp was all the way dead!!!
I seem to remember seeing police departments issuing Thompson submachine guns back when Bonnit and Clyde were running around. The police set up an ambush and blew more holes in them and their car than a block of Swiss cheese...It really hasn't changed all that much
 
People are not putting this into the proper perspective! This dude killed innocent people! He executed them for no reason what so ever, these people had probably never met him or had any interaction with him EVER, and yet he took Gods power of judgment and acted out his rage and anger! The Dallas PD did give him plenty of opportunity's to end the stand off, and he flat refused them, even going so far as escalating the situation by threatening them with explosives! He crossed a line when he began this action, and he him self removed all his rights in doing so! Dallas PD were more then justified in acting as they did, and in using an explosive they mitigated the risks to them selves, and the public, while ending his actions in as safe a manor as possible! The discussion of over reaching power here does not apply! Good on the Dallas PD! And this dude is now burning in that hot place for all eternity!

I agree, but this will just mean more Mini Wacos. If you are a perceived threat now, Kaboom. Yes, this guy was a killer and this was a way to end it. The Dallas Chief did a great job. Do you trust the Seattle Chief, or PDX Spokane or say Olympia chief to use HE as a LAST resort and not a first resort?
Can any of us agree that there has been excessive force used more recently?

The line out there now you may not even know when you cross it.
These are dark times.

Brutus Out
 
I agree, but this will just mean more Mini Wacos. If you are a perceived threat now, Kaboom. Yes, this guy was a killer and this was a way to end it. The Dallas Chief did a great job. Do you trust the Seattle Chief, or PDX Spokane or say Olympia chief to use HE as a LAST resort and not a first resort?
Can any of us agree that there has been excessive force used more recently?

The line out there now you may not even know when you cross it.
These are dark times.

Brutus Out
I think when this dies down and the analysis begins without emotion...the line will be more concrete than it is now. We are talking about civilian law enforcement. They are more susceptible to public scrutiny than the military is. My fear is National Guard or God forbid the actual military being used in this type of situation. The line in the sand will dissolve and we will all be in a lot of trouble
 
I agree completely Brutus57 The use of force and ROE's have changed for these folks and I don't believe for one min that you and I are not all ready "over the line" in the eyes of those that "enforce" things for us! Dark days ahead! We are fast becoming "Infidel's" in our own country! And I do not trust LEO Chief's to hold back, especially cities like Portland and Seattle with Liberal leadership in positions of command and control:mad:
 
I think when this dies down and the analysis begins without emotion...the line will be more concrete than it is now. We are talking about civilian law enforcement. They are more susceptible to public scrutiny than the military is. My fear is National Guard or God forbid the actual military being used in this type of situation. The line in the sand will dissolve and we will all be in a lot of trouble
My real worry is the State's Adjutants General who is in charge of the Nat. Guard when called up! They have to answer to that State's Gov'ner and to some extent, the Sheriff of whose county is in most need! Depending on That State Gov'ner, there could be a lot of blood spilled, Just like HC Katrina with LEO being sent out to collect arms and ending up getting shot!
 
I think it's completely unethical. The whole technological shift to using drones completely removes the operator from the situation. I don't know what we're going to do about this general trend since at least with the military drone tanks and planes are an inevitability. I do agree it will help reduce human casualties for our military members, I just don't trust that kind of technology to be used responsibly.

Needless to say, I think that kind of technology is far beyond the needs of your local police department. This thread could go on forever, even giving armored vehicles to police departments I think is gross negligence / irresponsible and doesn't help to build trust or faith in our local police.
 
Skynet is less tHan a decade away....

As if a lot of cops weren't already amped up. Now Dallas happens. Glad I know my local LEOs and wAve very time we pass on the road.
I even complimented one on his stainless 1911 the other day.
It is a dirty job but the system has to actively weed out the psychos.....you shouldn't get canned in Mayberry and then be able to get a job a couple states over in Midvale when Andy let you go for roughing up Rufus with your night stick because he stole Aunt Bea's pie.:eek:


Brutus Out
 
I think it's completely unethical. The whole technological shift to using drones completely removes the operator from the situation. I don't know what we're going to do about this general trend since at least with the military drone tanks and planes are an inevitability. I do agree it will help reduce human casualties for our military members, I just don't trust that kind of technology to be used responsibly.

Needless to say, I think that kind of technology is far beyond the needs of your local police department. This thread could go on forever, even giving armored vehicles to police departments I think is gross negligence / irresponsible and doesn't help to build trust or faith in our local police.
My real issue with all of this is that situations like this pull local LOE away from us. How many sheriff's have made public statements that they would not enforce what they felt were unconstitutional laws like gun confiscation? I would be willing to bet that the number has changed over the last few days. Would you still stand by a society that villainize you at every turn and openly attacked your officers without provocation. And before anybody says they had provocation no they didn't. At least not until the jury is in on exactly what happened with the last two incidents. This is still at its core a racial issue..
"I wanted to kill white people and cops"...
That is what he said...not just cops..an entire race of people is at risk because of people like this...
I have no plans on being a victim
 
@Brutus57 I 100% agree that Skynet is going to be active soon. As far as blowing the sniper up with a bomb.....they stopped the threat. By any means necessary.
 
@Brutus57 I 100% agree that Skynet is going to be active soon. As far as blowing the sniper up with a bomb.....they stopped the threat. By any means necessary.

I agree, but I guarantee you their threshold for use of deadly force compared to what you and I might consider a reasonable provocation just got much smaller, much like the total body volume of that killer when the C4 detonated.

Brutus Out
 
I think it's completely unethical. The whole technological shift to using drones completely removes the operator from the situation. I don't know what we're going to do about this general trend since at least with the military drone tanks and planes are an inevitability. I do agree it will help reduce human casualties for our military members, I just don't trust that kind of technology to be used responsibly.

Needless to say, I think that kind of technology is far beyond the needs of your local police department. This thread could go on forever, even giving armored vehicles to police departments I think is gross negligence / irresponsible and doesn't help to build trust or faith in our local police.
I agree here as well, The use of un manned means of attack ( offensively) should be a last ditch means of solving a problem, not the first, or a be all/end all in these instances. There has been quite a call for "accountability" within the Military for the use of drones to carry out strikes, and there is a command and control structure in place to ensure ROE's are followed to the letter! I do not see this in place at local levels in our LEO community, and that scares me! I don't see Dallas did any thing wrong in this case, BUT, as others point out, what's to stop others who jump too quickly on this "new" means of Policing! There needs to be a serious discussion of this with STATE LEADERSHIP to insure accountability and a full set of ROE''s to insure compliance!
 
That is SOOO obviously photo-shopped - no soldier goes around with a big black rectangle on the front of his head.

tac


here is another pic
yep photo shopped :s0140:

qmiB2oN.jpg
guess they couldn't figure out a better location.the rectangle is on the spider now
 
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I agree here as well, The use of un manned means of attack ( offensively) should be a last ditch means of solving a problem, not the first, or a be all/end all in these instances. There has been quite a call for "accountability" within the Military for the use of drones to carry out strikes, and there is a command and control structure in place to ensure ROE's are followed to the letter! I do not see this in place at local levels in our LEO community, and that scares me! I don't see Dallas did any thing wrong in this case, BUT, as others point out, what's to stop others who jump too quickly on this "new" means of Policing! There needs to be a serious discussion of this with STATE LEADERSHIP to insure accountability and a full set of ROE''s to insure compliance!

After 5 cops shot along with a large crowd and LEO unable to get a bead on him, I'd say it WAS a last ditch effort to stop the threat of further loss of life.
 

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