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The military I was in had a LOT of F'ups and losers in it , drug addicts, etc. ...
When I served the majority of my Marines were squared away, level headed and responsible, but they were still 17 -19 year old kids whose thinking processes were what you would expect for that age range. And … there were the F'ups too.

I had some limited authority to determine the arming levels of some in my unit.

Considering what I wrote above, the only ones I allowed to be armed were those on sentry duty. They were in the "standard guard condition" … a flap holstered .45 in condition 4 and a single magazine of 5 rounds in the magazine pouch. There was no way in heck I was willing to risk my career, financial standing and liberty (yes brig time was a possibility for the OIC when a negligent discharge occurred) to young, impulsive, testosterone saturated teen-aged boys … even those who had earned the title of Marine!

The sidearm was for the guard's personal protection only … and the guards were strictly ordered to only "observe and report" … not to get involved if something was actually going down. In other words, spread the alarm then get the heck out of the way.

They were to remove themselves from the situation and wait for the Calvary to show, meaning the better equipped and trained MPs who had real firepower, backup, communication abilities etc. The last thing I needed (or the guard in particular) was to have a situation in progress and add to that a wounded or killed sentry.

I can't imagine the risk to the OIC is any less in today's climate.


As far as having a locker with arms available to the OIC to pass out once the crises starts I'll pass. By the time you could muster your 'trusted troops' the situation would be over. The last thing I'd want is to have an ad hoc selected search team moving through the area looking for those not in the unit. What would be their skill level in apprehending and securing those they did not recognize? It would be quite limited compared to the MPs who train and recertify in these skills. This in my mind is a recipe for adding disaster on top of disaster.

Let's face it, while it sounds great at first, the idea of having every service member armed at all times is crazy. The vast majority of service members have little to no firearm training upon entry, and the minimal exposure that passes for training is no where near enough to make this even remotely safe. All you would be doing is placing a large number of weapons and ammunition within easy reach of bad actors and thieves. I can't imagine the number of ADs a policy like this would create.

Any competitive shooter (in any discipline) who can meet marksman level of classification is heads and shoulders above even qualified military folks. I shot expert in both rifle and pistol every cycle while in the Corps. The Corps skill level requirements are the most stringent of the armed forces. For instance, an Army rifle expert falls between marksman and sharpshooter on the Marine Corps scale (not dissing the Army here, just stating the qualification levels).

The point here is that even as a Marine Corps rifle expert I was only shooting middle of the road marksman scores on the standard NRA high power competition schedule. Most in uniform, even those trained and qualified, really have very little practical competence with firearms. The average shooter that hangs around a site like this is in reality much more qualified in the use of arms than the average trooper.

Before you say that's different for the combat arms types, like the infantry, go ask any company gunny or SFC in charge of their unit's annual firearms requalification. Ask about the stories they have about troopers ditching and doing everything possible to get out of qualification … then sit back as the number of stories will take quite a while. Let's face it … even many infantry types don't want to shoot because they then have to clean their rifle to the armorer's standards … and that's too much work.
 
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Just as an aside, the shooting incident was 'observed' by three of the shooter's 'buddies' who, instead of taking some kind of preventative action, whipped out their cell-phones instead and began making movies. They have all been arrested as being possibly complicit in the shooting, and making a record for their fans.

Watch this space.
 
You would think our politician and government employee would learn about Muslim hate for the U.S. after the 9/11 drama. but then it was the will of Allah.
 
I hear the head of moms demand action used this to call for more civilian gun control.

How would civilian gun control stop the government from issuing military personnel a service weapon?

And why isn't she more concerned that the Pearl harbor individual was a guard for a nuclear submarine so probably well vetted?

I'm afraid she might be mentally disabled.
the AGENDA of the anti gunner groups.
 
Let's face it … even many infantry types don't want to shoot because they then have to clean their rifle to the armorer's standards … and that's too much work.

So much this. I cannot count how many hours I spent recleaning M4's with just qtips and pipe cleaners and a wrag. But mine ALWAYS passed inspection first time go. The trick to cleaning your rifle is to hit the important spots like the star chamber and your bolt the charging handle and the buffer tube. Shouldn't sound like sand paper when you charge and mechanically it should be smooth not gritty and run a bore snake a few times down the pipe back an forth. Also don't forget your sights and the rails inside an out. Those are the popular spots they always check. Every thing else is just a gloss over dusting because its a non critical part.

For the chamber I just speed it up using a drill bit with a shotgun swab cleaner and lil solution to get the heavy crap out. Dental picks are your friend to.

Also made money off other lazy grunts who would routinely half bubblegum clean and apply CS gloss to fool an armorer but no 1SG inspection before going to the arms room. For any current grunts reading this charge money for a full clean and use break cleaner and wax and grease remover. Greatly speeds up the process and removes everything!.
 
The secret when at a big arsenal where they inspect and give you a turn in ticket is to clean one upper and have all your buddies clean their lower , which is easy. Everyone goes through inspection with the same upper. Everyone puts their rifle together and turns it in. Head to the bar.

Next trick: How to fashion a super lightweight kevlar helmet out of a styrofoam bike helmet.
 
Why is the Active Shooter Response on a military base with combat veterans the same as a grade school?
Because the military locks up weapons in the arms rooms when not being used, also it's a navy base, outside of the police and seals most of the navy wouldn't really know how to shoot back anyways. The reality of lost weapons is why they stay locked up, too many joes and sailors and airforce types would misplace their weapons while not in a combat zone, some even misplace them in a combat zone. We were allowed to keep personal weapons in our base housing, in the barracks they have to be locked up in the company arms room unless you are checking it out to go to the range and having been a joe in the barracks and later having spent enough time as CQ I wouldn't let joes have personal firearms in the barracks either. Young men+testosterone+booze+free time usually ends in a ruckus. That being said they do have SPs on Navy bases and they are armed.
 
Because the military locks up weapons in the arms rooms when not being used, also it's a navy base, outside of the police and seals most of the navy wouldn't really know how to shoot back anyways. The reality of lost weapons is why they stay locked up, too many joes and sailors and airforce types would misplace their weapons while not in a combat zone, some even misplace them in a combat zone. We were allowed to keep personal weapons in our base housing, in the barracks they have to be locked up in the company arms room unless you are checking it out to go to the range and having been a joe in the barracks and later having spent enough time as CQ I wouldn't let joes have personal firearms in the barracks either. Young men+testosterone+booze+free time usually ends in a ruckus. That being said they do have SPs on Navy bases and they are armed.

Oh god I completely forgot about CQ duty. CQ duty in a INF barracks on payday weekend = just no....
 
I had a commander who didnt want to use the arms room for privately owned weapons so he told us to keep them in our wall lockers! I remember one particular tequila fueled New Years Even when we were shooting at the ball on top of the flag pole from the barracks windows. P-38's for $125 at the Rod and Gun. What a deal.
 
It was always an adventure, lots of urinating happening where it shouldn't, broken furniture, vomiting and eventually fights.

Yeah I never got the whole urinate on or in everything (beds, washer/dryer, mail boxes, hallways you name it it had pee on it) Fights we had, we routinely had friday night fight nights at the CQ desk. NCO was the ref to make sure it didn't get out of hand. Usually pit the guys with beef or the bulky match ups head to head. Also remember putting the router out in the hallway so the desk wasn't bored all 24hrs on a weekend.

We used to be able to at least watch TV and maybe play games or use laptops until we got our next 1SG who declared that a NO-GO perma. Most the time though it was dealing with drunk rowdy 21 year olds and the mindset of being hard. We had one guy get a IV because he slammed a whole grey goose to himself after already been drinkin then we had a Doc stick an IV needle in the vein of his nuts just to demonstrate.

Oh yeah can't forget. Being the new cherry at the unit and on CQ your whole platoon charges you and tapes you to the CQ desk giving you pink bellies from all passing members.

When its not payday weekend people will pool the money to get beer and who can bring back the nastiest water buffalo from the bar (water town NY we called them water buffalo). There was a guy with no shame and he won the pot easily. I just remember the video. Since the bathrooms were connected by each room it was ez for people to just walk into your room. Well one guy did with a camera catching the guy with no shame in the act with said buffalo. All you see is him look back and smile and then "baby don't look" soon after a snarl beast shoots it head out and screams WTF!!!!. Guy with the camera runs all you see is feet and hear someone dying of laughter.
^ This of course made the rounds

You find some......interesting people in the INF barracks when alcohol comes out.
 
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It was always an adventure, lots of urinating happening where it shouldn't, broken furniture, vomiting and eventually fights.
Sounds like a standard evening on the submarine base where I pulled SP duty, except the fights came first, then everything else. A few marines usually got to learn the lesson that, contrary to what they were taught in bootcamp, they were NOT Superman.

As far as the Navy knowing how to shoot back?
firewhenready.jpg
 
In my experience many units can take on a bit of their own personality , from the senor NCO's and the Commanding Officer.
So for me at least , each unit I was in , even if it was of the same type , was always a bit different.

Also , while indeed the Scout Platoons and LRRP / LRSD units , that I was in , were filled by troopers who had to be both Airborne and Ranger qualified ....who were as a general rule a bit more "Hard Core"...we also were a bit more relaxed , again as a general rule here...we didn't need to "prove" that we were BadAzz....

As always ....everyone's time in the Service will be different , even for those who serve in the same units at the same time....
Andy
 
Because the military locks up weapons in the arms rooms when not being used, also it's a navy base, outside of the police and seals most of the navy wouldn't really know how to shoot back anyways. The reality of lost weapons is why they stay locked up, too many joes and sailors and airforce types would misplace their weapons while not in a combat zone, some even misplace them in a combat zone. We were allowed to keep personal weapons in our base housing, in the barracks they have to be locked up in the company arms room unless you are checking it out to go to the range and having been a joe in the barracks and later having spent enough time as CQ I wouldn't let joes have personal firearms in the barracks either. Young men+testosterone+booze+free time usually ends in a ruckus. That being said they do have SPs on Navy bases and they are armed.


My son was an electronics tech on the USS Chancellorsville and USS Shiloh while stationed in Japan. He was trained in antiterroist attack for the times he stood watch as well as some sort of very involved hostage/ship take over. And like I said he was a ET not a Seal or SP He was in for 10 years and and on all three ships he was on this was part of his duty.

Couse by the time he entered the US NAVY he had been a shooter and knew how to handle firearms for 14 years (he went in at age 19). So maybe they just used what they had.
 
The military I was in had a LOT of F'ups and losers in it , drug addicts, etc. At least 4 murders in the town I was stationed in in 3 years committed by soldiers one of whom I knew well. One guy even decapitated his wifes boyfriend and threw his head on her lap in the hospital while she was there to give birth to the other guys child. Those people. Lots of people who arent prepared for it getting really stressed out all the time. In a combat environment sure give them guns and ammo and point them in the direction of the enemy. Walking around garrison armed all the time? Sure but be prepared for more murders on base.
Thank you. Someone who actually knows. All these people saying arm everyone in the military has never spent a minute in the military to know how much of a cluster that would be.
 
I cant say whats what with these incidents... Ive never served and would be talking out of my bubblegum...


But it seems to me that its a problem when, as in Pensacola, that your base has an active shooter and the Navy has to call 911 for the county sheriff to come out and engage the threat.... there is a bigger problem here.

Sure, dont have everyone armed.... but there has to be some kind of middle ground, especially after the attacks over the years... like these incidents, Ft Hood or the attacks on recruiting offices.

There have to be enough trustworthy people that can be armed... but also, WTF is going on that we have a military that we cannot trust to be armed on base?
 
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