Wrong or Right

[44mag2ndamend]

Figured this one for a big legal battle.

http://news.yahoo.com/muslim-free-gun-range-arkansas-160333108.html

This is one hot topic, I believe it follows some sort of prerequisite of the Castle Doctrine. She is just trying to protect herself and the public that utilizes her facilities.

Or acting out of emotion, there are certain elements that do bring alarm to a business managers' mind in her arena.

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[The Heretic]

I think it is stupid and asking for trouble.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

As a business you should be able to deny whom ever you want. CLEARLY other businesses do not want firearm advocates and open carriers in their place of business.. And so far it's legal to discriminate against folks who live a defensive lifestyle.. It isn't any different for Muslims.

 

[Scott F]

While I am on this ladies side I think she will loose.

 

[44mag2ndamend]

ZA points something out that is really a truth. The rest is well getting a bit humorous.

 

[Scott F]

I am glad you thought my post humorous. I don't.

I agree it should be the right of a business owner to refuse to serve anyone but in our present day and age she would loose this battle even if it went all the way to the SC. It sickens me to see what this nation has become.

Laugh on if you find it funny, I find it sad. I gave 24 years of my life to a nation that no longer exists.

 

[44mag2ndamend]

Do'nt find it funny, its another example of people standing up for what they believe. Whether or not shot down in Court.

I find if people do stand up or out for what they believe this nation would be a lost cause. It takes a lot to see thru the smoke and fog these days.

 

[Koda]

Since I have no way of discerning which Muslims will or will not kill in the name of their religion and the commands in their Koran, I choose to err on the side of caution for the safety of my patrons.

If shes so stupid she cant tell the difference between a good person and an extremist then maybe she shouldn't sell guns at all. I don't see how discriminating against one religious group is upholding the constitution and representing everything the 2A stands for protecting the freedom of religion.

 

[JRuby]

Isn't this doing what we are afraid the federal government is trying to do? Restrict lawful citizens rights to have firearms and to use them. A gun owner restricting rights to other gun owners. I don't agree with her. If the individual causes concern due to their actions kick them off the range.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Given muslim doctrine's views on women and women's rights (or lack thereof) I can appreciate that she's being proactive.
Muslims are fine with women being "in charge" in the home. Outside of the home is a different story.
The muslim requirement for subservience to men leads me to believe she's doing the right thing.

Besides, what ever happened to:
"we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"?

 

[Scott F]

Do'nt find it funny, its another example of people standing up for what they believe. Whether or not shot down in Court.

I find if people do stand up or out for what they believe this nation would be a lost cause. It takes a lot to see thru the smoke and fog these days.

I agree. I said in my first post that I am on her side but I don't think She will win. You said it was getting humorous. I also agree with AZ you should be able to refuse to serve those who want in this case to kill you.

 

[RVTECH]

A gun owner restricting rights to other gun owners. I don't agree with her.

She is not 'restricting' their rights - she is refusing to serve them in her place of business - big difference. (maybe a bit of a stretch but I agree with her) They are free to go exercise their 'rights' where they are welcome.

 

[Koda]

Shes flat out discriminating against a religious group.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

If shes so stupid she cant tell the difference between a good person and an extremist then maybe she shouldn't sell guns at all.

Maybe I'm not understanding this post so apologies if I am taking it the wrong way.

How is the inability to read people's minds a reflection of their intelligence? I was a Lockheed consultant to TSA for awhile, in a group of pretty smart people, and we didn't have any mind-readers on our team.

Some folks are great at looking normal and blending into their native environment. Many guns have been legally sold to people of many colors and religions and those guns later turned up at crime scenes or suicides.

I'm lied to every week by people I interview, and some of them are pretty good at it. So if there is a ESP course I could take to become less "stupid", I'd be one of the first to sign up next week. So long as it's reasonably priced, of course.

 

[RVTECH]

SO religious 'groups' trump a businesses' right to:

"we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"?

 

[Koda]

Doc in UPlace, you didnt discriminate against an entire religiouse group to accomplish your job.

RVTECH, yes.
Religious groups and minorities are protected by law. Everyone else is not. This isnt a "right to refuse service" case that many here are implying.... Which is only to protect buisness owners from beligerent INDIVIDUAL customers. This is a discrimination issue thats doomed to lose in court and destined to give gun rights bad publicity.... Im surprised there is so much support for her cause among gun owners.

 

[RVTECH]

Koda - Thanks for the answer

 

[Jamie6.5]

Doc in UPlace, you didnt discriminate against an entire religiouse group to accomplish your job.

RVTECH, yes.
Religious groups and minorities are protected by law. Everyone else is not. This isnt a "right to refuse service" case that many here are implying.... Which is only to protect buisness owners from beligerent INDIVIDUAL customers. This is a discrimination issue thats doomed to lose in court and destined to give gun rights bad publicity.... Im surprised there is so much support for her cause among gun owners.

Personally, I would just cover the shooting stations and benches, seats, chairs etc. with pigskin, and post signs alluding to the fact.

End of problem.
But it's her establishment, so as far as I'm concerned she can run it however she wants. If she doesn't want to face the threat of a muslim attempting to "put a woman in her place," that should be her right also.

Just like all those stores I see that have a "No Guns Allowed" sign on the front door.
The right to keep and bear arms is protected by law too.
But not on private property.
GTF over it.

 

[Kevinkris]

seems like free advertising. build hype and gets bible thumpers to come from further distances to use the range. there will be a lawsuit but business will increase.

 

[Provincial]

Koda, I am aware that an employer cannot discriminate in regards to employment or workplace. The United States Commission on Civil Rights defined religious discrimination as follows:

"religious discrimination occurs when someone is denied "the equal protection of the laws, equality of status under the law, equal treatment in the administration of justice, and equality of opportunity and access to employment, education, housing, public services and facilities, and public accommodation because of their exercise of their right to religious freedom."

Unless a shooting range is a "public service" or "public facility" it is hard to see where refusal to serve a retail customer is discrimination. In fact, there is a case active that has not yet been adjudicated regarding a flower shop refusing to sell flowers to a homosexual couple for their wedding. If refusal to provide a good or service (other than the ones specifically outlined by law, like housing) was illegal, that case would have been easily decided.

I am pessimistic about the chances of a business retaining it's right to refuse service at it's discretion (whatever the reason) because of the Nanny State impetus to control every last decision made in society. But at this point, there is still some discretion left.

Please point out the pertinent laws you reference so the rest of us can get a better understanding of the situation. Thanks!