Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

Wrong or Right

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by 44mag2ndamend, Oct 9, 2014.

  1. 44mag2ndamend

    44mag2ndamend Round the ole tree stump, Down by the crick Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    455
    Figured this one for a big legal battle.

    http://news.yahoo.com/muslim-free-gun-range-arkansas-160333108.html

    This is one hot topic, I believe it follows some sort of prerequisite of the Castle Doctrine. She is just trying to protect herself and the public that utilizes her facilities.

    Or acting out of emotion, there are certain elements that do bring alarm to a business managers' mind in her arena.
     
    d2the3 likes this.
  2. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,103
    Likes Received:
    6,908
    I think it is stupid and asking for trouble.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2014
    Modeler, Koda, Joe13 and 1 other person like this.
  3. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

    Messages:
    4,653
    Likes Received:
    5,766
    As a business you should be able to deny whom ever you want. CLEARLY other businesses do not want firearm advocates and open carriers in their place of business.. And so far it's legal to discriminate against folks who live a defensive lifestyle.. It isn't any different for Muslims.
     
  4. Scott F

    Scott F Oregon City, OR Active Member

    Messages:
    191
    Likes Received:
    164
    While I am on this ladies side I think she will loose.
     
    44mag2ndamend likes this.
  5. 44mag2ndamend

    44mag2ndamend Round the ole tree stump, Down by the crick Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    455
    ZA points something out that is really a truth. The rest is well getting a bit humorous.
     
    Sam Kinard likes this.
  6. Scott F

    Scott F Oregon City, OR Active Member

    Messages:
    191
    Likes Received:
    164
    I am glad you thought my post humorous. I don't.

    I agree it should be the right of a business owner to refuse to serve anyone but in our present day and age she would loose this battle even if it went all the way to the SC. It sickens me to see what this nation has become.

    Laugh on if you find it funny, I find it sad. I gave 24 years of my life to a nation that no longer exists.
     
  7. 44mag2ndamend

    44mag2ndamend Round the ole tree stump, Down by the crick Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    455
    Do'nt find it funny, its another example of people standing up for what they believe. Whether or not shot down in Court.

    I find if people do stand up or out for what they believe this nation would be a lost cause. It takes a lot to see thru the smoke and fog these days.
     
  8. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    2,197
    Likes Received:
    3,013
    If shes so stupid she cant tell the difference between a good person and an extremist then maybe she shouldn't sell guns at all. I don't see how discriminating against one religious group is upholding the constitution and representing everything the 2A stands for protecting the freedom of religion.
     
    The Heretic likes this.
  9. JRuby

    JRuby St. Helens Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,033
    Likes Received:
    822
    Isn't this doing what we are afraid the federal government is trying to do? Restrict lawful citizens rights to have firearms and to use them. A gun owner restricting rights to other gun owners. I don't agree with her. If the individual causes concern due to their actions kick them off the range.
     
  10. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,202
    Likes Received:
    4,416
    Given muslim doctrine's views on women and women's rights (or lack thereof) I can appreciate that she's being proactive.
    Muslims are fine with women being "in charge" in the home. Outside of the home is a different story.
    The muslim requirement for subservience to men leads me to believe she's doing the right thing.

    Besides, what ever happened to:
    "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"?
     
  11. Scott F

    Scott F Oregon City, OR Active Member

    Messages:
    191
    Likes Received:
    164
    I agree. I said in my first post that I am on her side but I don't think She will win. You said it was getting humorous. I also agree with AZ you should be able to refuse to serve those who want in this case to kill you.
     
  12. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,262
    Likes Received:
    3,076
    She is not 'restricting' their rights - she is refusing to serve them in her place of business - big difference. (maybe a bit of a stretch but I agree with her) They are free to go exercise their 'rights' where they are welcome.
     
  13. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    2,197
    Likes Received:
    3,013
    Shes flat out discriminating against a religious group.
     
    Doc In UPlace likes this.
  14. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,644
    Likes Received:
    2,032
    Maybe I'm not understanding this post so apologies if I am taking it the wrong way.

    How is the inability to read people's minds a reflection of their intelligence? I was a Lockheed consultant to TSA for awhile, in a group of pretty smart people, and we didn't have any mind-readers on our team. :)

    Some folks are great at looking normal and blending into their native environment. Many guns have been legally sold to people of many colors and religions and those guns later turned up at crime scenes or suicides.

    I'm lied to every week by people I interview, and some of them are pretty good at it. So if there is a ESP course I could take to become less "stupid", I'd be one of the first to sign up next week. So long as it's reasonably priced, of course. :D
     
    CoastRange57 and decklin like this.
  15. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,262
    Likes Received:
    3,076
    SO religious 'groups' trump a businesses' right to:
     
  16. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    2,197
    Likes Received:
    3,013
    Doc in UPlace, you didnt discriminate against an entire religiouse group to accomplish your job.

    RVTECH, yes.
    Religious groups and minorities are protected by law. Everyone else is not. This isnt a "right to refuse service" case that many here are implying.... Which is only to protect buisness owners from beligerent INDIVIDUAL customers. This is a discrimination issue thats doomed to lose in court and destined to give gun rights bad publicity.... Im surprised there is so much support for her cause among gun owners.
     
  17. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,262
    Likes Received:
    3,076
    Koda - Thanks for the answer
     
  18. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,202
    Likes Received:
    4,416
    Personally, I would just cover the shooting stations and benches, seats, chairs etc. with pigskin, and post signs alluding to the fact.

    End of problem.
    But it's her establishment, so as far as I'm concerned she can run it however she wants. If she doesn't want to face the threat of a muslim attempting to "put a woman in her place," that should be her right also.

    Just like all those stores I see that have a "No Guns Allowed" sign on the front door.
    The right to keep and bear arms is protected by law too.
    But not on private property.
    GTF over it.
     
    d2the3 likes this.
  19. Kevinkris

    Kevinkris Aloha Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,216
    Likes Received:
    444
    seems like free advertising. build hype and gets bible thumpers to come from further distances to use the range. there will be a lawsuit but business will increase.
     
  20. Provincial

    Provincial Near Salem, OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    457
    Likes Received:
    544
    Koda, I am aware that an employer cannot discriminate in regards to employment or workplace. The United States Commission on Civil Rights defined religious discrimination as follows:

    "religious discrimination occurs when someone is denied "the equal protection of the laws, equality of status under the law, equal treatment in the administration of justice, and equality of opportunity and access to employment, education, housing, public services and facilities, and public accommodation because of their exercise of their right to religious freedom."

    Unless a shooting range is a "public service" or "public facility" it is hard to see where refusal to serve a retail customer is discrimination. In fact, there is a case active that has not yet been adjudicated regarding a flower shop refusing to sell flowers to a homosexual couple for their wedding. If refusal to provide a good or service (other than the ones specifically outlined by law, like housing) was illegal, that case would have been easily decided.

    I am pessimistic about the chances of a business retaining it's right to refuse service at it's discretion (whatever the reason) because of the Nanny State impetus to control every last decision made in society. But at this point, there is still some discretion left.

    Please point out the pertinent laws you reference so the rest of us can get a better understanding of the situation. Thanks!