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Would you use another person as a human shield?

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by Burt Gummer, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    I was walking with a friend around the lake in Lake Oswego in the 90s and we were going up alleys to see what all the fuss was about - was there really a 'lake?'

    Long story short, a huge German shepard came charging and I instinctively pushed my friend toward the dog and did an exit stage left. Luckily the dog's chain ran out before he ate my friend.

    He brings that story up frequently.

    I also have a sticker on my fridge that says "When the Zombies come, I'm tripping you."

    Instinctively when I am in a crowded place and carrying I look at angles, cover, exits, etc. I also include human cover in that scenario. I know that is probably wrong (LOL) but in a super bad situation a person closer to a shooter that is unarmed is probably toast anyway.

    So, if you were in a crowded place and a bad guy was letting loose with gunfire would you shoot around people in the line of fire, or worse, use them as cover and advance, firing?

    Seriously, I think I need to have that survival instinct trained out of me. I know an innocent bystander didn't sign up to be a bullet proof vest. Am I alone here?

    Please help me I have issues! :laugh:
    SonicBlue03 and (deleted member) like this.
  2. Peteralexander78

    Peteralexander78 vancouver Slow is smooth, smooth is fast

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    haha, that is awesome. To me what matters is would you take a bullet or be harmed for a loved one. I would totally put the jerk at work and maybe my boss but the bigger question is would you put your life on the line to save someone you dont know or better yet, dislike? Survival is normal, fight or flight!
  3. billgrigsby24

    billgrigsby24 Beaverton, Or Active Member

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    Depends if they're pro or anti gun....
  4. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    "I was walking with a friend around the lake in Lake Oswego..."

    Were I in your shoes toward a quest for self-help, I'd place on the back burner any "human shield" questions as applied to extremely rare scenarios, and rather work very hard on my definition of "Friend", and treatment of same.
  5. Nightshade

    Nightshade vancouver,WA Well-Known Member

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    lol burt that tells us not to take a walk with you...
    Riot and (deleted member) like this.
  6. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    No. I will generally step in front of whoever I'm with to meet the danger and push them back.
    ogre, Dunerunner, Grunwald and 7 others like this.
  7. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    OK, that is what I am hoping I will do also. But even if you are advancing toward a target through people you are technically using them as camo/cover.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not the jerk I am making myself out to be. I am pretty unselfish when it comes to helping out others and would risk my life, even to save a stranger when I have that one or two seconds to reason it out.

    What I was referring to is the instinctual/instant reaction where your inner Neanderthal/animal brain says 'danger' and you move - THAT is when I'm using you for cover! LOL!!!


  8. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    I have a list of designated human shields, the problem is I would probably not have one handy when needed. Dang.

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    You went into 'fight or flight' almost instantly and that dramatically altered your sense of values. You valued you friendship with this person (i think) under normal conditions but then when the 'flight' instinct took over you suddenly had no value for him other than as a human shield to save yourself. Interesting reaction.
  10. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    Honestly, instinct can take over anytime. We'd ALL like to say we would be the one to jump infront of someone and not the other way around... yea yea.. You are suuuuuuch a great person..etc.

    Burt has a point.. his instinct took over and had it been a different situation, his instincts would have kept him alive to live another day.
    I cannot judge that at all. Its human nature.
  11. Hook686

    Hook686 Northern California Active Member

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    Why are you advancing toward the target ?
  12. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    Stupid heroics, I see your point. Something in my blood; I don't think I can watch innocents fall, be armed, and not help (that is AFTER the flight instinct is overriden).
  13. MarkAd

    MarkAd Port Orchard Well-Known Member

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    Advancing on an enemy when he expect you to flee is a good offensice tactic. It may give you the second or two you need to eliminae the threat.
  14. Cuthbert Allgood

    Cuthbert Allgood Clark County, WA Well-Known Member

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    yes, i would use a person as a human shield. only if that person is already dead. if i were dead, i'd be too dead to give a damn what you do to my corpse.

    burt, the zombies are already here. they have come in the form of the TSA/DHS.
  15. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    I have a couple friends that have asked me if I could go back in time to the theater in Colorado and have one pistol of choice in the front row, would I?

    The answer is yes. I am not some hard *** or Marine either. Just have that do-gooder thing going on that a lot of us here have. Sometimes I really wished that were not the case. Especially when it comes to prepping. The logical thing to do is to keep anything you have to yourself and let everyone else starve. Dammit, I am just not put together that way. I care about people and that will probably be the death of me.
  16. Mohawk13

    Mohawk13 Home on The Range Active Member

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    Only You Burt...Only You....LOL
    Burt Gummer and (deleted member) like this.
  17. nwdrifter

    nwdrifter troutdale oregon Active Member

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    Short answer friend no zombie yes
  18. Darknight

    Darknight Salem Active Member

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    Yes, I have an Aunt and Uncle that live lakeside.

    It depends on the situation; If your at the mall and there is a band of elementary school kids, then no. not because it is humanly wrong, but practically speaking they are far to short and not enough meat on their bones to stop any rounds effectively. But in the case of a fat*** big mouth nieghbor that is anti-gun, yes.

    As far as shooting around people goes; depending on the situation you can just shoot right through them and into the bad guy. Just make sure it's not your friend Burt!:angeldevil:
    Grunwald and (deleted member) like this.
  19. Calirefugee

    Calirefugee Hillsboro OR New Member

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    Depends on who it is really, if it were my immediate family, I would not use them as a shield. If it were a friend or acquaintance, I don't know what I'd do in the moment but probably not throw them in front of me, some stranger I've never met before; I'm sure as bubblegum not going to die for them.

    Regarding the 'shooting through crowd to get shooter'. If I could get out without shooting, I would. If the only exit was behind the shooter, anyone between the exit and I are in a disagreement.
  20. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Moral choice (1).
    Suppose you are standing on a bridge overlooking two train tracks.
    Below you is a bus full of school kids that are stuck on one of the tracks. A runaway train is bearing down on them.
    There is a switch on the bridge that will divert the train to the other track, but there is a man walking on that track who would not get to safety in time.

    The moral dilemma is, do you throw the switch to divert the train and save all of those young innocent children and through your actions sacrifice the man. Or, do you do nothing and watch as the helpless children die.

    Studies show that most people would throw the switch and save the group of children.

    Moral choice (2).
    You are on the same bridge, but this time you are standing next to your elderly grandfather
    A train is hurling out of control on a single track towards a school bus full of children stuck across the tracks.
    The only way to save the children is to push your grandfather off the bridge and by doing so, will divert the train off the tracks and saving all of those children.

    Most people chose not to sacrifice a relative.