Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

Would you support limiting this guys 2A rights?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Kevatc, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. Kevatc

    Kevatc Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,747
    Likes Received:
    671
  2. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    5,774
    Likes Received:
    4,961
    Absolutely he's an attempted murderer how could he not be prevented from buying or owning?
     
    Burt Gummer and (deleted member) like this.
  3. Just Me

    Just Me Peoples Republik of Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    203
    Is this a trick question?
     
    The Redpaw, WheatNuts, Toxic6 and 3 others like this.
  4. chariot13

    chariot13 Near Eugene/Springfield Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,116
    Likes Received:
    595
    I would not limit any of his 'rights'. I also would not hang out with him. If you want to do something to him then have at it but i dont know the guy and i really dont care to.
     
  5. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,838
    Likes Received:
    1,186
    My guess is that his 2nd rights are already limited
     
  6. civilian75

    civilian75 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,392
    Likes Received:
    627
    +1 Is it?
     
  7. Botte Hork

    Botte Hork Camas WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    615
    Likes Received:
    267
    No. This is why:

    1) "Shall not be infringed". Especially not when there's nothing wrong. Keep in mind the "prior to".
    2) "Odd" means nothing. Should 2A rights be infringed because someone has different religious/spiritual beliefs? Has no spiritual beliefs? Dresses differently than others? Listens to different music? "Normal" is very very relative.
    3) Registries are in general used for their intended purposes roughly 0 seconds after they're even thought of. Look at the talks of the magical terror watch list and the no-fly list, that are filled without due process, but (might) get used for all sorts BoR-limiting actions.


    The magical idea that all bad stuff can be prevented is nonsense. Our 2A-confirmed rights give us the possibility to stand up when crimes happen to us. In the place I'm from you are very likely to get punished for physically defending yourself from an assailant, let alone use a weapon. I'm happy to be somewhere where the ability to level the playing field is not taken away.
     
  8. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner You'll Never Know Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,476
    Likes Received:
    1,234
    My Dad used to say, "It takes all kinds." Our society has been conditioned to shun certain people because of their sexual orientation, race, sex, because they are ODD, for a myriad of reasons. We are no longer a community. Folks are isolated and begin to feel that they are societal outcasts. Give the kid a hug, get off his back, have some meaningful conversation and help him out of his funk!
     
  9. 4Freedom

    4Freedom Boise, Idaho Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,124
    Likes Received:
    816
    People who take away or attempt to take away other's peoples RIGHT TO LIFE, the number #1 fundamental right, don't deserve to have rights themselves. IMO.. Sorry I am anti-murder, don't know about others.

    Once upon a time in America, we had this thing called Justice, but not many people know about it anymore.
     
  10. Black Dog

    Black Dog Eagle Creek Or Active Member

    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    169
     
  11. civilian75

    civilian75 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,392
    Likes Received:
    627
    Let me put it this way: this feller should not be able TODAY to "pass" a background check. The goat incident is unsettling but not disqualifying. But the assault is, at least until he gets his day in court and cleared of the "attempted murder charge" (and his right to a speedy trail shall not be infringed). If lucky, he'll state mandated therapy, probation, and a bunch of other restrictions. And until it is determined he is not a danger to himself and others, should not be legally able to "keep and bear arms".

    And this is as far we as responsible gun owners should be able to yield, so that gun grabbers can see that we also agree that with the "rights" there are also "responsibilities".
     
  12. slingshot1943

    slingshot1943 salem or Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,085
    Likes Received:
    321
    From what I have seen about 90% of this stuff is drug related. I think the war on drugs is so badly corrupted it is meaningless. I don't think anyone should be barred the use of arms while there are drugs everywhere. Gun laws aren't going to work any better than the drug laws.
     
    chariot13 and (deleted member) like this.
  13. pchewn

    pchewn Beaverton Oregon USA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    543
    Likes Received:
    289
    Absolutely not. Here is why:

    1) It makes it all about the guns and not about the danger this guy might be to society EVEN WITHOUT A GUN.
    2) What should be happening is one of four things:
    A) He should be in jail awaiting trial on his attempted murder charges. (If a judge during bail hearing finds him to be a risk). His right to a gun will be temporarily denied (among many other rights of people in jail). NOTE: No specific banned-from-having-a-gun-list is necessary, he's in jail.
    B) He should be in prison, after being convicted of some charge. (Again, rights denied based on being in prison)
    C) He should be out on parole. A possible CONDITION OF PAROLE would be not to be in possession of a gun OR OTHER WEAPONS. There could be other conditions depending on the individual case. Don't like the conditions? Then don't get out on parole.
    D) He should be free (not in jail, not in prison, not on parole), whether pre-trial, post trial (not guilty), or after completing his sentence. Once free, he should have all of his rights back.

    This is what SHOULD happen. I know current law provides for denial of gun ownership to persons previously convicted of felony. I don't believe in that.
     
    The Redpaw and (deleted member) like this.
  14. aslinged

    aslinged Southern Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    889
    Likes Received:
    251
    Ah, a school teacher. Now it's perfectly clear.
     
  15. Kevatc

    Kevatc Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,747
    Likes Received:
    671
    No. Probably poorly presented on my part.

    I was hoping to use this as a way to spur conversation on trying to ID folks who have displayed behaviors that would serve as red flags. I don't want policies that would cause a person to have their rights suspended based on speculation. On the other hand if a person displays behaviors that are violent towards animals or people perhaps there should be some communication between mental health and law enforcement. I don't know what the right answer is. I think prevention of violence on the level of a Cho or Loughner, or Lanza could start with identifying these folks who have had bizarre or violent behavior in the past.

    I don't have a link, just going from memory but there is a coorelation between animal abuse and people going on to commit human crimes. I can't say there is a causal relationship in this particluar instance but the kid did go on to try to kill his own dad with an axe. That aside, one could argue that wanting to sacrifice a goat could be for religious purposes.

    I really don't know what the answer is but if you look at the past events such as Aurora, Columbine, Virginia Tech, Clackamas, Arizona these folks just didn't suddenly snap. They had behaviors in common that perhaps might serve as predictors of future violent behavior.
     
  16. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    12,910
    Likes Received:
    19,535
    No, we don't charge people with pre-crimes (yet), that's why gun bans and every other piece of legislation won't ever prevent criminal violence... It only provides for the punishment of said actions.

    Another thing to consider is, those who are in power get to make the rules for criteria of what qualifies for "the database". If you disagree with the current administration you are a "hate monger", a "racist", a "homophobe", a "constitutional extremist", a "domestic terrorist", or a "CONSERVATIVE".

    As the rules are always subject to change, you might just find yourself on the wrong side of that some day.


    I can't get any more conservative-libertarian than that!
     
  17. hermannr

    hermannr Okanogan Highlands Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,830
    Likes Received:
    871
    This guy's rights are removed when he moves into the jail house to serve time for his crime. Please note: He attempted to kill his father with an axe, not a gun. If he is free, and cannot legally possess firearms, do you think he really cares?

    I do not think anyone that is not serving time in a jail or a secure mental facility should be restricted from being a full citizen. If he is a danger to society, he should be executed. After that he will no long be a danger to anyone.
     
    Redcap and (deleted member) like this.
  18. elsie

    elsie Way over there on the left Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    620
    I'd probably put him on a registry so he couldn't buy any axes. Particularly those double-bit assault axes.


    elsie
     
  19. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    12,910
    Likes Received:
    19,535

    LMAO.... touche' ;)
     
  20. mud

    mud brush prairie, wa Member

    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    21
    is goat ruslin a felony?if he had his own goat could he sacrifice it?my uncile use to work at smuckers with mexicans that used to kill goats in there back yards all the time made pretty good tacos.