Would you load this brass?

[po18guy]

Being too povertous to have the use of such high-grade items of tool, I use a handy rock - cheaply available most everywhere around here.

Oh! The commonly known "BFR"?

When I open my wallet, air rushes in. The pliers I have literally fell into my possession - off a service truck that drove by years ago.

 

[tac]

Undoubtishly.

 

[Mikej]

Oh! The commonly known "BFR"?

When I open my wallet, air rushes in. The pliers I have literally fell into my possession - off a service truck that drove by years ago.

I'd never owned a 5# sledge hammer. Kind of wish I had though. A few blocks down the road from me there's an intersection. One day driving through, I looked, low and behold, a fine 5# sledge right there in the intersection. SCORE!

 

[po18guy]

I'd never owned a 5# sledge hammer. Kind of wish I had though. A few blocks down the road from me there's an intersection. One day driving through, I looked, low and behold, a fine 5# sledge right there in the intersection. SCORE!

Seek and ye shall find.

 

[GWS]

OK, this is actually a bit of an experiment due to boredom, so let me rephrase the question:

Could you load this brass? And what kind of results would you expect?

My son and I pick up brass at the range from time to time, and normally I do NOT load stuff like this. It usually goes straight into the scrap bucket, because common caliber brass is cheap and plentiful. This little project is just to see what happens, and illustrate that brass is more resilient than often thought.

For the sake of discussion, let's say I couldn't find any other brass, and really needed to load these. The book answer is "Thou shalt not load them. They are damaged and as such they are dangerous. Your gun will blow up and you will die!"
I expect some to echo this statement, and maybe a few others to say "Go ahead, they're fine!"

A caveat to avoid contention in this thread: I'm not going to advocate doing anything dangerous. If in doubt, throw them out. This is just a little experiment for fun.

View attachment 677786

Too much work for a too risky return.
Hard pass.

 

[thorborg]

The head area is the integral part of the cartridge, and should be in good shape with a snug primer pocket. Other than adding to some (arguably important) gripping to the chamber surface, which helps reduce pressure on the bolt face, the balance really only confines the rest of the ingredients for a self contained unit. (the chamber itself doing the work of explosive containment)
Even with excessive shoulder slop the likelihood of anything beyond a split case is nil. Other than the dubious benefits of @CLT65 reloading venture, I see no reason not to disparage his reloading education and moxie surrounding his actions.
Those finding that reckless, may want to avoid plastic and paper shot gun shells and not run with knives.

 

[CLT65]

The head area is the integral part of the cartridge, and should be in good shape with a snug primer pocket. Other than adding to some (arguably important) gripping to the chamber surface, which helps reduce pressure on the bolt face, the balance really only confines the rest of the ingredients for a self contained unit. (the chamber itself doing the work of explosive containment)
Even with excessive shoulder slop the likelihood of anything beyond a split case is nil. Other than the dubious benefits of @CLT65 reloading venture, I see no reason not to disparage his reloading education and moxie surrounding his actions.
Those finding that reckless, may want to avoid plastic and paper shot gun shells and not run with knives.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

There's a difference between perceived danger and real danger. Perceived danger may or may not be real danger, but should be treated as such until you know for certain.

I've worked with seriously dangerous chemicals in my line of work for the last couple decades, and have had a tremendous amount of safety training. I've worked with stuff that was deadly if you didn't know what you were doing, but safe to handle with the proper precautions and PPE.

I remember seeing a big snake in Eastern Oregon one time. I grew up on the west side and know very little about snakes, so I thought it was a rattler, and really kept my distance. One of the locals said it was just a king snake, not dangerous. It was wise to keep my distance because of the perceived danger but the actual danger was minimal.

This is how it is with dented brass. If you don't fully understand how and why it's not dangerous, and why a dent doesn't compromise the integrity of the brass, or think that it may blow off your fingers, hands, or face, then you shouldn't do it: but that doesn't mean that those of us who do are taking dangerous risks. It's just that we have a better understanding of what's actually dangerous and what isn't.

 

[CLT65]

yes, Im resurrecting a 1 year old thread... no need to post the "bring out your dead" video.
This showed up in the "similar threads" as I was typing a new post.

I had 2 FTE jams today that resulted in 2 bent cases. I found and solved the problem but took the 2 damaged rounds and fireformed them. Cant tell the difference now in the fireformed brass but it made me wonder if they were weaker somehow....?

Would you reload this?
View attachment 1189980

No, your brass is not damaged, weakened, or compromised, so long as it's not deeply creased/gouged/scratched/scraped.

I had a "Part 2" to this thread, where I loaded brass damaged far worse than that. I think I got bored and stopped after five or six loadings, and it was still good.

My point in these threads is not to say we should waste time loading dented brass. .223/5.56 brass is so cheap and plentiful that I scrap anything remotely questionable too.

My point is that brass cases just aren't as fragile as we sometimes think they are. Case head damage is serious and cases with compromised case heads should always be scrapped. Dents in the neck, shoulder, upper case body are just not as serious.

 

[Koda]

No, your brass is not damaged, weakened, or compromised, so long as it's not deeply creased/gouged/scratched/scraped.

I had a "Part 2" to this thread, where I loaded brass damaged far worse than that. I think I got bored and stopped after five or six loadings, and it was still good.

My point in these threads is not to say we should waste time loading dented brass. .223/5.56 brass is so cheap and plentiful that I scrap anything remotely questionable too.

My point is that brass cases just aren't as fragile as we sometimes think they are. Case head damage is serious and cases with compromised case heads should always be scrapped. Dents in the neck, shoulder, upper case body are just not as serious.

Im guessing i could reload them but i figured 223 brass was cheap enough, i have plenty.

The concern i had was the dent was low enough where i wouldnt want to anneal it, a dent is cold working the brass which makes it brittle. One dent is probably not enough but to me it was a pretty good size dent i just wasnt certain how that spot could be i didnt want to end up with a cracked case.

 

[CLT65]

I learned a lot about brass, dents, cracks, and such from shooting a LOT of old surplus ammo over the years. Often surplus is surplussed for a reason, and I've had some that was scary. I think the worst was the notorious 1980 Israeli 7.62x51 ammo. Some of it was manufactured defective, prone to split across the case head. I had one do just that, before I was aware how bad it was. Fortunately I wasn't injured.

I also had some 7.62x54R that was prone to having tiny little cracks burn through right above the case head. Not fun! I forget the nationality. Case head defects are bad news!

I've had lots of cracked and split cases in the upper case body/shoulder/neck areas, and generally don't even notice it until I pick up the empties. Never noticed any damage to a gun from it either. It is absolutely best avoided of course.

I will say it again, so nobody gets the wrong idea: damaged brass is best scrapped. Even if not particularly dangerous, brass is cheap and it's not worth the time messing with junk. I won't argue against that.

 

[ageingstudent]

I learned a lot about brass, dents, cracks, and such from shooting a LOT of old surplus ammo over the years. Often surplus is surplussed for a reason, and I've had some that was scary. I think the worst was the notorious 1980 Israeli 7.62x51 ammo. Some of it was manufactured defective, prone to split across the case head. I had one do just that, before I was aware how bad it was. Fortunately I wasn't injured.

I also had some 7.62x54R that was prone to having tiny little cracks burn through right above the case head. Not fun! I forget the nationality. Case head defects are bad news!

I've had lots of cracked and split cases in the upper case body/shoulder/neck areas, and generally don't even notice it until I pick up the empties. Never noticed any damage to a gun from it either. It is absolutely best avoided of course.

I will say it again, so nobody gets the wrong idea: damaged brass is best scrapped. Even if not particularly dangerous, brass is cheap and it's not worth the time messing with junk. I won't argue against that.

When you already have sound brass no. If your family needs food or defense...

Safety standards are fluid when the crap hits the fan. I'm not even a pepper and I find this useful. Definitely a difference between case head issues and neck and shoulder issues. I've had brand new brass split clear past the neck. Certainly irritating, but the case still sealed the chamber and no harm done except the loss of the brass.

I appreciate that you did the research and backed it up with trials. Stay safe good thread.

Edited for spelling

 

[P7M13]

My point is that brass cases just aren't as fragile as we sometimes think they are. Case head damage is serious and cases with compromised case heads should always be scrapped. Dents in the neck, shoulder, upper case body are just not as serious.

I would have agreed with you until this year, where I was loading 338 Win Mag brass that was on it's 1st reloading, me having originally fired it from it's brand new box. Inspecting, everything looked hunky-dory. I think I fired three shots (posted a thread about it here or somewhere), and two of the cases came apart at the base of the shoulder.
I unloaded and deprimed them all, and gave them a good annealing. It seems to have done the trick, but brass (as well as any other metal) *can* be fragile if you don't apply proper precautions and treatment.
When done right, brass can take a great deal of abuse.

I stopped reloading mangled cases because it takes 3-6 more steps per mangled case to load it. Lately, time is my precious commodity.

 

[CLT65]

I've been annealing all my bottleneck rifle brass for a while now, after I started having problems with numerous split case necks.

It seemed to be a direct result of wet tumbling. I bought a stainless steel tumbling setup a few years ago; it works great but maybe a year afterwards I started having LOTS of cracks in rifle ammo that had been tumbled, loaded, and sat for a while. I ended up pulling down over a thousand .223 rounds. About half of them had cracked necks just from sitting, pulled apart by hand, and any that weren't cracked, if I fired them, cracked when fired. This happened with several different calibers loaded around the same time, wet tumbled but not annealed.

I've read online a couple places about people having similar experiences, but most people say it can't be. Either way, I've changed my tumbling process a bit, and I anneal every bottleneck rifle case that I load. Maybe that's overkill, but it works for me. I haven't had any issues at all with pistol cases.

 

[Caveman Jim]

I'm not rich, but I'd never try and reload ANYTHING that looked like the OP's 'choice brass'. In fact, I deliberately crimp the ends of all my time-expired cases to prevent anybody else from trying to resurrect them.

If I find cases that are not to my liking to reload I too crimp it unusable. My recycle bucket is just for that, it is not to dig through to find something that may be salvageable, it is not worth it to me.

 

[DizzyJ]

I've been annealing all my bottleneck rifle brass for a while now, after I started having problems with numerous split case necks.

It seemed to be a direct result of wet tumbling. I bought a stainless steel tumbling setup a few years ago; it works great but maybe a year afterwards I started having LOTS of cracks in rifle ammo that had been tumbled, loaded, and sat for a while. I ended up pulling down over a thousand .223 rounds. About half of them had cracked necks just from sitting, pulled apart by hand, and any that weren't cracked, if I fired them, cracked when fired. This happened with several different calibers loaded around the same time, wet tumbled but not annealed.

I've read online a couple places about people having similar experiences, but most people say it can't be. Either way, I've changed my tumbling process a bit, and I anneal every bottleneck rifle case that I load. Maybe that's overkill, but it works for me. I haven't had any issues at all with pistol cases.

Is it possible the cleaning mixture and not the tumbling itself caused the issue?

 

[CLT65]

Is it possible the cleaning mixture and not the tumbling itself caused the issue?

I don't know; I've only ever used the standard Dawn and Lemishine. I did use more Lemishine than necessary, and tumbled longer than needed too. I've cut back on both, anneal everything bottleneck, and haven't had a problem since.

 

[tac]

Life is too short to shoot bubblegumty cases.

Why shlep?

My take.

 

[CLT65]

Life is too short to shoot bubblegumty cases.

Why shlep?

My take.

Normally I don't. This was just a project for curiosity's sake, and partly as a response to the ""You'll shoot your eye out!" crowd. Two years ago, by the way, when I was "working from home" due to Covid.