Would you carry a WW2 era 1911a1?

[DeanMk]

Training can overcome all sorts of (sometimes perceived) disadvantages, that's true... but why not just get a gun that doesn't have them to begin with? Doesn't your training go a bit further if you don't spend part of it trying to program yourself to work around things that just get in the way of you being effective?

^^^EXACTLY^^^

 

[Pirogue]

Mine says this on the right side frame.

 

[DeanMk]

Very Cool Pirogue!
Do you know if that slide's been worked on in the past?
The Colt Manuifacturing stamp seems partially obscured by the ejection port.
I feel that may be an indication of it having been enlarged at some point in time.

Dean

 

[Pirogue]

It appears to have been lowered.

 

[Cerberus Group]

That doesn't appear to be a GI slide.

 

[gprippers]

ABSOLUTELY! ALTHOUGH IF IT WAS A PRISTINE EXAMPLE I WOULDNT! LOL! JUST AS LONG AS ITS BEEN KEPT UP AND IT GOES BANG RELIABLY I WOULDNT HESITATE TO CARRY ONE.

 

[ATCclears]

We have the WW1 1911 from my wife's Grandfather. Works great.

 

[zenbreath]

 

[DunRanull]

I bought one of these in the early 90's from a pawn shop. Guy told me it was a cheap copy of a 1911, and that I'd be better off paying a little more for the Norinco for $299. 2 years ago I was offered 3K and took it. I've regretted it ever since.

Shoulda bought both! I'd love to buy a Norinco for $300..

 

[Pirogue]

Real gunfights are three shots, three seconds at three feet.
What's a two handed weaver stance and sights got to do with it?
Practice drawing from concealment and point shooting. The rest is Hollywood.

 

[DeanMk]

Bill Jordan wrote The Book on it...

Full text of "No Second Place Winner - Bill Jordan"

archive.org

 

[Legion489]

Carry a WW II era 1911 for defense? No.

Why? Well first of all, the slide was selectively hardened, so the lugs will wear out with enough shooting and the slide will need to be replaced, this will destroy any collectors value. 1911s were issued to officers. A newly minted Second Lt. had a 30 day life expectancy, so no one really worried about the slide lasting a few thousand, or hundred, rounds.

If you are forced to use it, the po-lice will steal it and it will either 1) be shot into the ground and beat to heck if/when you get it back. 2) it will be stolen and officially "lost", sorry. 3) rusted into a pistol shaped pile of rust that will never be able to be restored. Don't get me wrong, I know of all these cases, two cases of friends getting their firearms stolen.

One had a house break in. The po-lice weren't interested so he hired a PI. The PI finds the guns, calls in the BATF and they go get the stolen guns in the thiefs' house, the cop that broke in, shot the dog and left it to die in my buddies arms, and ripped the guns off, all shot to heck and beat to snot, rusted to balls of gun shaped objects.

Second case, house broken into, legal full auto Thompson stolen. As usual, the po-lice yawn and ignore him. In comes the BATF, tells him to go to the local donut stor.... er... police station and take him to the basement and rip the door off a locked locker. There was his Thompson in the cops' locker!

I went to college with a cop. He would pull people over and ask if they had a gun in the car and then steal it. A guy comes in and wants his gun back! No idea what he is talking about! He tells them what happened, they raid the scums' house and guess what? LOTS AND LOTS of guns stolen from the evidence room, guns officially "destroyed", guns stolen from honest citizens! He gets a promotion for making the streets safer for criminals! Seriously. That is not a joke. A year or so later he took a ferry to his private island to duck hunt and drove off the ferry in the middle of no where and drown.

Have had a lot of people tell me about their horror stories too, including cops buddies telling me their horror stories about bad cops.

OK, so what should you carry? Personally I don't care. Carry whatever you want. If you want to destroy a WWII 1911, why ask me if I think it is a good idea or not? It's your gun if you want to wreck it or lose it.

I was on a 1911 site and the idiots got into a wee-weeing contest about what to carry, "MY gun cost $3,000!" "Well MY gun cost $5,000!" "Well MY gun cost $10,000!" I said if they use it, they will never get it back, so don't carry a $5,000 custom gun when a $500 pistol will do fine. Of course the stupid just go ballistic. "Well just WHAT do YOU want me to carry?! Huh?! Huh?! Huh?!" You carry what you want, but plan to lose it permanently if forced to use it. "Well MY smith said if I had to use it he would build me a new one!" "Well MY smith said if I had to use it he would build one at 10%/20%/30%/etc. off, AND I would go to the top of the list!" "Well MY smith said..." They were quickly heading toward carrying the 1911s made of meteors and cost about a million dollars for the pair when I stopped reading their BS.

Bottom line: If you want to destroy a collector's item and it is your gun, I got nothing to say about it, you do what you want.

The slide Pirogue has a photo of has been lowered and flared, no collectors value left.

 

[mkwerx]

In as-issued condition? Probably not. With a little work - sure.

I'd want better sights (dovetail the slide, install modern sights - check)

I'd want an extended safety, ambi would be nice. Easy enough to replace - check

I'd want the flat main spring housing, vs the arched A1 style - easy check

Would probably throw in a new hand fit barrel bushing to tighten the groups up a bit - I've installed these before myself, easy check

Then I'd stuff it with Wilson 47D mags and call it good. Put it in a good holster and they're easy enough to carry and they shoot well. They were meant to be used hard by hard men, not sit in a stuffy gun safe or put up on display. Every vintage gun not being used or shot regularly makes both the Baby Jesus and John Moses Browning cry.

 

[FeralGSXR]

Can you say "hammer bite"? Hard to aim confidently after your hand starts bleeding. Maybe I just have fleshy hands, but I have been bit by every non-beaver-tail 1911 I've ever shot.

Other concerns are all the usual... weight, lack of firepower (round count), and that it is hard to conceal a full size gun. Anything that is hard to carry is something you won't carry and thus not have it when you need it. Think about a P365 in comparison... half the weight, half the size, and greater firepower despite it all as long as you could be confident in your 9mm self defense load.

The 1911 is an 108-year old design, and the A1 is an 95-year old design. Think about a Ford Model T compared to cars available today. No seatbelts, no ABS, no airbags, no space-age materials. Sure you could rock the classic for the sake of nostalgia, but why ignore a century's worth of tech when your life is on the line?

 

[DeanMk]

...maybe so, but ANYONE can work on a Model T. Not so true of today's cars.

 

[DunRanull]

Depends on the pistol and how well it shoots / functions as is....

Maybe the recoil guide spring , barrel bushing , barrel , hammer.....again it would depend on how well it worked , when I got it....
Andy

Right on... I'd install Pachies and retire those grips to the safe with the replaced springs.. I did this with a Rem-Rand. The pistol was from the estate of an old vet and looked barely used. I no longer carry a 1911 cuz I like the Glock 21 mo bettah.. Still have a model 70 Combat Commander in the safe just cuz I can..., it is much easier to carry than the full-size and I just prefer it. YMMV! The standard recoil spring is (IIRC) 18 lbs, and there is a 20 lb spring in my Commander, because I tend to reload/shoot hotter than "standard" loads. I like to get the 230gr hardball or hollowpoints @900-925fps, but that's just me.

 

[FeralGSXR]

...maybe so, but ANYONE can work on a Model T. Not so true of today's cars.

Well yeah, but missing features like seatbelts and the fact that the top speed wouldn't even get you to a minimum safe speed on a modern freeway is kind of a problem.

I am just saying that the only reason to carry a vintage 1911 is nostalgia, i.e. you think it is cool. Anyone making a practical/logical decision based on the facts would choose something else.

Some guys probably rock 1873 Colt single action revolvers as self defense weapons. Just because that's very old school cool doesn't mean it's a good decision.

 

[aksu747]

Some guys probably rock 1873 Colt single action revolvers as self defense weapons. Just because that's very old school cool doesn't mean it's a good decision.

If they shoot it well then its a fine decision. I'm sure you wouldn't complain if someone helped you out of pinch if that is what they were using.

 

[mkwerx]

Well yeah, but missing features like seatbelts and the fact that the top speed wouldn't even get you to a minimum safe speed on a modern freeway is kind of a problem.

I am just saying that the only reason to carry a vintage 1911 is nostalgia, i.e. you think it is cool. Anyone making a practical/logical decision based on the facts would choose something else.

Some guys probably rock 1873 Colt single action revolvers as self defense weapons. Just because that's very old school cool doesn't mean it's a good decision.

Except the comparison isn't really that extreme. Semiautomatic handgun tech has not taken the astounding leaps that cars have. The biggest innovations since the 1911 came in the form of Sig's link-less modification to the Browning action, and the advent of polymer and light weight metal alloy frames.

There's nothing wrong with the single action mechanism - its just as safe, or safer in the 1911's case, than some of the modern plastic wonders. A Springfield XD for example has a single action (they renamed it, but it was originally touted as single action) trigger with no manual safety and only a grip safety. A Glock doesn't even have that - it just has the trigger dongus to aid in drop safety. Glocks use a partially precocked striker mechanism.

And like any other type of semi auto - you can get junk, or a gem. There are 1911's that suck and are unreliable, but some run like a raped ape. Yes, they have safety levers. There are some of us that don't see that as a negative. I like the safety equipped M&P's for a couple reasons - especially since I carry appendix, it's one added measure there. It also gives a great thumb rest for my firing hand. Disengaging a safety is intuitive with a little training - generations of shooters that came before the advent of the Glock type pistol weren't dying by droves because of manual safeties. Idiots have always been idiots.

For a competition gun - I'd rather have a slicked up 9mm 1911 than a Glock 34. In the .45 world - a double stack .45 1911 like the Para Ordnance or Caspian guns are more comfortable and easier to shoot than a Glock 21. For a carry gun - I like Glocks and M&Ps but I have, and would carry a 1911 in certain circumstances. The Model T analogy applies more to single action revolvers than to 1911s.

Hell, there's still people who walk around and think that a 5 shot J-frame is good enough

 

[FeralGSXR]

If they shoot it well then its a fine decision. I'm sure you wouldn't complain if someone helped you out of pinch if that is what they were using.

Now you are just being obtuse. What if in trying to help you this person cost you your life, or theirs, or a stranger's, or a loved one's, because their rate of fire and ability to reload was 19th century in nature. Could you live with yourself if someone died on your watch because you didn't have a 7th round ready and you could have with a better carry decision? Or really a 6th round ready because a real Colt SAA couldn't be carried safely without one empty chamber under the hammer at rest.

At any rate, I see this is a losing argument because there are some guys out there playing Wyatt Earp or Audie Murphy who are attached to the 2nd cool of old guns no matter how outmoded they are. That is fine. It is a free country, ish. You are not going to convince me and I am not going to convince you. Call it a day.