Would you be ready if this happened in your area?

[MissJ]

I believe that if suddenly due to one of several possibilities, welfare and food stamps were cut off, it would start in small towns just as fast as big cities. It would just be easier to control riots. Hungry burglars and robbers sneaking around, not so good.

If on the other hand the grocery stores were empty and even those with money couldn't get food - watch out.

If all food supplies were cut off in the big cities, I don't agree that the riots would be over in a few days unless a lot of people died - by the millions. Even most wealthy people aren't prepared for a one-year food shortage.

We don't know what even "good" people would do if they couldn't feed themselves or their children.

In every local disaster we've had, the feds and states have been slow and inept at providing aid, and that's just a relatively small area like Katrina where the rest of the nation was fine and help should have been swift and abundant. If the disaster was economic and nationwide, there is no hope for help.

Yeah, I agree. I think the worst possible situation that would affect everyone regarless of rich/poor rural/urban would be no food available in grocery stores. Then, even if you have a year of food stored it's still gonna be a hard year; keeping it a secret while trying to farm more food....that would just suck. I think that shortlived regional emergencies such as earthquakes/hurricanes things will get out of control- but it will mostly be really bad in the cities. I think that with a light at the end of the tunnel....most decent folk will find a way to hang on without going crazy and looting/murdering. If they can just hold on a week or so....then FEMA would eventually help these folks out.....I'm not singing FEMA's praises but i do think that in a local natural disaster FEMA will eventually get out there and give the people some food....once the people have food the pandamonium should start to die down as long as the natural disaster is OVER and there is no more imminent danger. Obviously this does not apply to widespread economic problems.


Great point about the welfare/food stamps. However, I don't think the government could be so stupid as to unleash the wrath of the ignorant masses by just turning off the welfare one day....they would likely "ramp it down" first by kicking off the obvious freeloaders....waiting a while....then slowly decreasing benefits....or more likely failing to increase benefits alongside inflation as they knowingly devalue the dollar's buying power through tricks like quantitative easing.... If they give out say $50 a week in foodstamps today...and then in 3 years they are still giving out $50 a week in food stamps even though that only buys $30 worth of groceries in today's dollars....that will bother the welfare recipients....but they will never have that one enraging moment to simultaneously come together and revolt....that is how the government will do it....at least that's what i would do if I was running the show....elect MissJ 2012!

 

[Burt Gummer]

"If this happens in your area" needs to read "when this happens in your area". We will make Greece look like a little kid's birthday party. Americans are uncivil, unthinking, spoiled, pharm-drugged zombies w/ guns ready to lash out in every direction. But that is the plan. Divide and conquer. Then the banksters who engineered the economic collapse reap the spoils of everything real while we starve clutching worthless dollars.

 

[MissJ]

Great point about the welfare/food stamps. However, I don't think the government could be so stupid as to unleash the wrath of the ignorant masses by just turning off the welfare one day....

I realized the folly in this sentence when re-reading my post. I should change it to "I hope the government wouldn't be so stupid as to...."

We all know they COULD be so stupid as to do a lot of things....

I was buying groceries yesterday. I'm sure we all have our irritating stories of being behind somebody in the checkout line who is using foodstamps and not using them very wisely. this one just bugged me though....

she is a hispanic woman. she's got name brand diapers in the cart, but no kids with her so I imagine she is a mom but who the heck knows where the kids are....She is buying a giant pack of capri sun juice pouches, a jumbo pack of diet coke. cookies. chips. frozen dinners. fruit snacks. She has clipped no coupons. Everything she bought is name brand....not generic or store brands...no fresh foods. no INGREDIENTS for making food. No milk. No Bread.

So she has to pay cash for the diapers, and when she is interacting with the cashier it is clear she doesn't speak English....can barely carry out the transaction.... I'm not an immigrant hater....I mean we are all immigrants in this country unless you are 100% native american... But I don't understand how somebody can be in this country long enough to figure out our welfare system without first figuring out the language?

Meanwhile, missJ is behind her in line. Buying generic groceries, buying mostly basic ingredients. Using coupons that she clipped from the paper at work. Buying generic diapers. Then paying with her debit card...that has money in it from her JOB....after taxes of course....

 

[Gunner3456]

.they would likely "ramp it down" first by kicking off the obvious freeloaders....waiting a while....then slowly decreasing benefits....or more likely failing to increase benefits alongside inflation as they knowingly devalue the dollar's buying power through tricks like quantitative easing.... If they give out say $50 a week in foodstamps today...and then in 3 years they are still giving out $50 a week in food stamps even though that only buys $30 worth of groceries in today's dollars...

That could very well be it. Same with SS and medicare.

Don't forget. They are lying to us about unemployment and inflation. They count only those on unemployment, but not those who are underemployed or who have given up. I believe the real number is more like 20%. The worst it got in the Great Depression was 25%.

They don't count food or energy in the inflation figures. Well, that's most of what people need and a lot of what they spend money on. Plug those in and inflation is already scary. SS recipients etc. don't get cost of living increases for those items.

I just heard on Fox News that with falling federal revenue, the deficit is going to be far bigger than estimated just a couple of weeks ago.

 

[MissJ]

They are lying to us about unemployment and inflation. They count only those on unemployment, but not those who are underemployed or who have given up. I believe the real number is more like 20%. The worst it got in the Great Depression was 25%.

They don't count food or energy in the inflation figures. Well, that's most of what people need and a lot of what they spend money on. Plug those in and inflation is already scary. SS recipients etc. don't get cost of living increases for those items.

Yeah, it's refreshing that at least SOME of us are on to their tricks.

With unemployment, don't forget the people whose benefits have run out....they don't get counted either. Also people who are just now attempting to enter the job market such as college grads cannot file for unemployment and do not get counted. If husband gets laid off and wife was a homemaker, so now both husband and wife start looking for work....only the husband counts towards unemployment. People who are only nominally connected to a job (underemployed, commission, on-call shift workers) don't count either in weeks that they don't claim benefits. Small business owners who go out of business don't get counted as unemployed since they cannot file for benefits...somebody who gets laid off a $50k a year job and takes a job at a gas station making minimum wage doesn't count towards unemployment even though he will probably lose his house and not contribute any $$ towards the "consumer driven recovery"....

With the Core inflation index....first of all anybody with 2 brain cells can see that it's idiotic do exclude food an energy from the index....since those are 2 major things that real people always spend money on... but what's even more deceptive is that "housing" is represented by average rent instead of a true composite of what people pay for housing....which is about 50/50 between rent and mortgage. Basically the people with the power are always changing the rules in what does and does not get counted in these "reports" to suit their needs and try and make people believe that unemployment isn't too bad and inflation isn't too bad....when anybody living at or near the poverty line would laugh in their faces....

Oh yeah....and the recession actually ended 2 years ago. Didn't you read THAT report?

 

[lonegunman]

If you want to see the true nature of people, cut the power off for a week.



Starting with Katrina and NO, you see a certain segment of the entitlement society lost complete control if they are not waited on hand and foot. They loot, rob, murder, steal and generally run wild as soon as they don't have cops standing on their necks. This is not race based,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it is welfare scumbag based.

Now that we have the welfare president telling everyone they are "entitled" to despise the "rich" and proclaiming everyone with a job, savings or some form of retirement plan "rich", he is actually encouraging class warfare. Add in "flash mobs" and a hatred of law enforcement and you have a delightful combination. Now he is proclaiming criminal invaders have rights and deserve citizenship he is adding a complete disregard for law and order to the mix.

One good sized disaster in your area and the animals will be up in arms.

 

[RVTECH]

Any of the scenarios mentioned would be bad beyond belief but wouldn't the 'Theory Of Natural Selection' 'weed out' the worst elements in a short amount of time? It would seem to me those that are already dregs in 'normal' society would be the least rational in a crisis and prey on each other or fall to infighting first.

 

[Sun195]

If you want to see the true nature of people, cut the power off for a week.

Starting with Katrina and NO, you see a certain segment of the entitlement society lost complete control if they are not waited on hand and foot. They loot, rob, murder, steal and generally run wild as soon as they don't have cops standing on their necks. This is not race based,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it is welfare scumbag based.

Just my two-cents: cut off the power for a week to almost any group in our society, and people will act very poorly. I live in a suburban, upper-middle class town where we lost power for a week. Some people here absolutely lost it - they had to post a police officer down at City Hall because people were threatening the receptionist (the City is not the power company, so I'm not sure what they thought the City was going to do about it, let alone what they thought the receptionist was going to do). It's not like these people were starving - they just hadn't had a hot shower or TV for a week. True - they didn't loot or pillage, but I shudder to think what they'd do if they actually had a disaster/crisis where they lost access to food & water.

 

[Gunner3456]

Any of the scenarios mentioned would be bad beyond belief but wouldn't the 'Theory Of Natural Selection' 'weed out' the worst elements in a short amount of time? It would seem to me those that are already dregs in 'normal' society would be the least rational in a crisis and prey on each other or fall to infighting first.

That could be true, but why would people who have nothing prey on people who have nothing? Isn't it just as likely that they would spread out to suburbs where people have something? In a small town, isn't it more likely that they would prey on the better neighborhoods?

 

[Gunner3456]

I would love to have a reliable statistic on how many hard-core welfare types have guns, or any real stockpile of ammo. I know only two and they have police records which would preclude them from legally owning or having access to guns. That doesn't, of course mean they would follow that law but I don't believe they have good guns or ammo stockpiled. I don't think they can afford it.

On the other hand, every single one of my rural neighbors here is well armed, accustomed to hunting, and could put up a battle. Even the retired cardiac surgeon across the road hunts, and would take no crap off anyone if it came down to it.

 

[Thebastidge]

Just because somebody might be 'dregs' in a civilized nation, doesn't mean that survival of the fittest would weed them out in an emergency or uncivilized place.

Sociopathic behaviour has a certain survival value. That's why there's a pretty consistent 2-3% sociopaths in even the healthiest society. In some situations, the one who is willing to use deadly force first, wins. Even if they're not 'the best' at it, the willingness and speed with which they resort to it trumps everything else.

Gangs have a certain law of the jungle logic to them. The strong lead, and the rest get into predator pack mentality. Supporting the alphas provides a certain unity of purpose that is useful in emergencies- and when social order breaks down for good, as well. Even 'rugged' individualists can be overcome with sufficient force. The average person simply isn't prepared to switch gears fast enough.

On the other hand, civilized people have a higher level of trust when they do organize. Gang leaders have to look out for the next beta trying to become an alpha, and in that structure, there's only room for one at the top. People who join together for mutual benefit don't have as much competition for leadership, and a lower cost to leaving the organization. Social order there is mutually agreed upon, and only enforced to the extent that it remains mutually beneficial.

Social order in a gang is enforced strictly, and leaving is not a choice, it's betrayal and is punished that way.

 

[Just Jim]

Should come a time when people realize who creates not only the mobs but the conditions for the riots. Yall keep voting for those who create the problems.

jj

 

[Gunner3456]

Just because somebody might be 'dregs' in a civilized nation, doesn't mean that survival of the fittest would weed them out in an emergency or uncivilized place.

Sociopathic behaviour has a certain survival value. That's why there's a pretty consistent 2-3% sociopaths in even the healthiest society. In some situations, the one who is willing to use deadly force first, wins. Even if they're not 'the best' at it, the willingness and speed with which they resort to it trumps everything else.

Gangs have a certain law of the jungle logic to them. The strong lead, and the rest get into predator pack mentality. Supporting the alphas provides a certain unity of purpose that is useful in emergencies- and when social order breaks down for good, as well. Even 'rugged' individualists can be overcome with sufficient force. The average person simply isn't prepared to switch gears fast enough.

On the other hand, civilized people have a higher level of trust when they do organize. Gang leaders have to look out for the next beta trying to become an alpha, and in that structure, there's only room for one at the top. People who join together for mutual benefit don't have as much competition for leadership, and a lower cost to leaving the organization. Social order there is mutually agreed upon, and only enforced to the extent that it remains mutually beneficial.

Social order in a gang is enforced strictly, and leaving is not a choice, it's betrayal and is punished that way.

I agree with you. I do believe one thing. The good, hardworking, tax paying types have more drive and resolve than the entitlement crowd. That's what got the two groups into the positions they are in.

I would rather have to fight a gang of bums than a neighborhood or other group of the second type.

 

[accurateone]

I agree with you. I do believe one thing. The good, hardworking, tax paying types have more drive and resolve than the entitlement crowd. That's what got the two groups into the positions they are in.

I would rather have to fight a gang of bums than a neighborhood or other group of the second type.

I agree with your sentiment, but there in lies the problem. You, and most good folks, discern between scumbag and a person you can negotiate with. The Alpha gang leader type just sees what you have and takes it.... throwing down heavy (fatal) force without consideration of anything else. I learned this first traveling Over Seas, we of the "West" generally value life & in most of our interactions with others it shows... We recognize these courteous interactions as showing good "character". I've been in countries where your life as a foriegner, specially an "American" meant it had no value other than a bank card value. This extreme world view is what terrorists exhibit when they kill total strangers and children without remorse. In old terms a "seared conscience". When your up against these types knowing what you're capable of is good... but useless. You need preset triggers to boundaries, sort of like "Muscle Memory" you practice drawing and dry firing until you come up on target every time without thinking about all the technical points. That's great, but when your attacked is your soul committed to what it takes to survive without hesitating over the technical points. The time to determine your boundaries, or if you even have any, is now. If you hesitate in the real world... you lose. AND HEY GAMERS... THIS IS REAL LIFE. YOU DON'T GET TO "RE SPAWN," THERE ARE NO BONUS LIVES. If the SHTF it aint Halo it's ****. Oh yeah, and the praying to Jesus thing... it works for me!
A1

 

[knuckle Head]

I have lived in rural area area, small towns, urban areas and now live in a city. I feel a person is better off in rural area, while welfare is prevalent everywhere except the rich neighborhoods,(btw the really rich generally have a staff of people who stock their pantry's and probably 30 days supply of food).

But, everywhere I have lived I did notice one thing, most people do not have more than a couple of weeks of stores. Yes, rural people slaughter their own beef, pork and lamb or hunt a have freeezer of food. Still a lot of them do not have stores of rice, beans, salt, dreid or canned vegetables or fruit and berries. They have become dependant on Wla-mart, Kroger or whatever food store.

All of the experts have stated time and time again, at any given in the U.S. there is only 3 days food in the supply chain. Just visit your local grocer on Friday or Saturday, they are constantly restocking the shelves. When shtf happens, many people who go out to dinner two or three times a week or who always dependant on others to help the complete task are going to trying to get others to take care of them. This is why I hardly socialize with anyone and am always busy when people ask me to do osmething, except those I know are a mutual benefit. Any make comments like well pantry is empty I better go shopping, little do they know, I could not shop at the grocer for more than a year and make just fine. Al though i am recent member i have lots of articles here, and Honeyville gets a good order from me every time there is a 10% off sale.

Anyone who thinks people will not resort to extreme measures to feed themselves, or that they could not ignore others in trouble or hungry to take care of themselves and their family is just flat out wrong or so naive they would die of starvation in week as soon as others find out what you have. I am applying for other jobs in rural area's and quit buying meat two months ago, and eat meat everyday, and still have a couple of months before my freezer is depleted, but people I work with do not even know I have a freezer.

Answer to the orignal question, yes I am prepared, did not happen over night and I am constantly buying more term stores. Others want to live in lala land more power to them, that just means more homes for me to scavange from 90 days after shtf fan when they have died of starvation or been killed by those who they invited into their homes

 

[GunNoob]

For those who think really small rural towns are immune, I'd think again. Two things. 1. If the grocery shelves are empty, you don't know what the "best" of people will do. 2. It's surprising how many people in those small towns live there because living is relatively cheap, but they are on welfare and food stamps. You can bet they aren't stocked up on supplies.

I wouldn't let my guard down. It takes only one or two guys slipping around your house at night with the intent to rob you to put you in real danger.

I agree, And I think they have already started but for some reason our media is calling it "flash mobs" pulling people out of their car and beating them in a large group, robbing stores and destroying property isnt rioting?

 

[knuckle Head]

Yeah, you right on this, it is kill or be killed in these situations, most people in our country are still sound asleep and are going to be easy pickings for the bad guys.

I actually did get shocker the day at Walmart a woman around 60 was buying some 22 and 223 ammo, she said she had never shoat a gun in her life but after the flash mobs, high unemployment and our country headed to the bubblegumter, she said it was time she got real and quit hating something that could save life and learn how to use it. WHat a shocker.

 

[Daev]

Close in inner city urban Portland here. Living in the worst place imaginable for this kind of a thing. It would roll right over the top of us and would be very tricky to deal with, if at all given how fast this kind of thing can develop. Not too concerned about the empty shell of a ransacked house we will leave behind, but please keep a shovel handy my brothers, for I would hope that afterwards one of you would kindly bury my wife and I so as to stop the stench of our rotting bodies once the mob has had their way with us.

Cheerio!

Portland isn't the worst place to be... it's not the best... but I've lived in Philly adn New Orleans... there are worse towns to be in when SHTF.

 

[Daev]

This is an armed city, civil unrest would be a lot different here. However, New York City and Chicago will be really bad, wouldn't want to be there.

I imagine that we have a higher limit of threshold of potential civil unrest energy that would have to build up before it could spill over and cause a crisis of national proportions.

A large part of that is our armaments, both civilian and military but an even larger part of it is our geographical distribution across the country.

The worst thing that could happen in a heavily coordinated way would be if a region decided to break away from the union. Then it's only a bad thing if you happen to disagree with the dominant politics of the region.

Beyond that, anything that might crop up is really a temporary problem.

 

[kenno]

Thinking you can hit a 16" target at 300 yards is way differant than KNOWING you can do it.
Same for 3 yards.
If you are not spending dollars training, you don't care about your family, period. Cause there aint no SECOND CHANCE in the real world.
Shooting skills are perishable, they disappear over time.
Nuff said