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Would shooting subsonic 22lr be quieter in a rifle than a pistol?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by jhc5, Apr 3, 2010.

  1. jhc5

    jhc5 Seattle, WA Member

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    My pops is looking to get a new 22LR for dealing with backyard varmints that have been "terrorizing" :)laugh:) the pond he built. He's got a Mark II but would rather not have an autoloader since he'll be using low powered ammo. He's been looking at the Ruger Single Six Hunter (integral scope rail); its a cool gun, but a little expensive for his purposes, I think. I suggested a 22 repeater rifle like the Henry, figuring it'll make for more accurate extermination, at a lower price, and he can still mount a red dot or low powered scope (his vision isn't as compatible with iron sights as it used to be). I told him that I though the subsonic ammo would be quieter in the rifle than the pistol, but when he pressed me, I realized I had no basis for that notion.

    Am I right? And if so, why is it quieter out of a rifle? Also any gun suggestions are welcomed.:)
     
  2. JAFO

    JAFO OR, USA Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

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    I believe you are wrong. It will be louder out of a rifle. You might *think* it's quieter because the exit is further from your ears. Remington subsonic cycles my Ruger MK II just fine. Those Aquila CBs or whatever likely wouldn't cycle. An auto, or bolt action, would probably be the quietest but you would likely have to hand cycle (providing they will even chamber ok, I haven't tried any).

    I suggest a MK II with a suppressor. :D

    I wouldn't trust those no powder loads to not squib in a rifle.
     
  3. jhc5

    jhc5 Seattle, WA Member

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    Great point, JAFO. Perceived loudness is likely a factor. My dad might not let me live this one down for a while. :p

    As for the gun choice, he is down in CA, so no suppressors in his future, unfortunately. As for the squib issue: The Henry fourm on rimfire central seems to have lots of people who have had no problems with a primer only round. I guess it only takes one though. I'll have to look into that more. Thanks.
     
  4. torpedoman

    torpedoman land of corrupt politicians Member

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    you want quiet use a bolt action gun, a revolver will not be a quiet weapon.
     
  5. jhc5

    jhc5 Seattle, WA Member

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    Why would a bolt action gun be quieter? Not being argumentative, just trying to educate myself. Is the key blowback versus locked action? Or is it barrel length, or other?
     
  6. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Because of escaping gasses from the cylinder/forcing cone area of a revolver, and the action opening on a semi auto

    Out of my bolt gun (MAS 45) CCI subsonics are no louder than a high powered airgun

    They are so quiet out of my 10/22s that I do not need hearing protection

    If you're talking varmints, bolt action is the way to go.. maybe a CZ

    If you still want a handgun, I would recommend a single shot
     
  7. JAFO

    JAFO OR, USA Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

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    I think he just means quieter than a revolver because the gasses and noise would escape from the gap between cylinder and barrel throat. I don't think it would make a whole lot of difference with those colibris though.

    For my statement about squibs I wasn't basing it on any experience with colibris. I have had a squib or two with regular bulk 22LR though in a 10/22. If he already has a MK II I would suggest he just try some of those rounds. Those are pretty accurate guns so maybe a fast follow-up shot wouldn't be necessary anyway. Of course, buying other guns is always good too. :)
     
  8. d1esel

    d1esel Ridgefield WA. Member

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    Any round will be louder out of a pistol than a rifle. And even more so out of a revolver.

    To stay quiet with a .22, it's all about barrel length and bullet velocity . You need a barrel long enough to allow all the powder to completely burn before the bullet exits the barrel. That way you eliminate the “BANG”, and all you and your neighbors hear is the gas escaping the barrel. Bullet velocity needs to be kept under the sound barrier. That eliminates the sonic boom, which creates the echoing crack you hear with high velocity ammo.

    The ultimate low noise .22 set up without using a suppressor is a CZ 452 Ultra Lux with full power subsonic ammo. This gun has a 28.5” barrel. It is so quiet the impact of the bullet makes more noise than the report of the gun. My kids pellet guns are louder.
     
  9. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    I have read that with subsonic (12 inch with subs) and usually with standard velocity 22 the gas is all used up by the 16 inch mark on a barrel
     
  10. d1esel

    d1esel Ridgefield WA. Member

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    I have found that not to be true based on my personnel experiments with 16” 20” and 28.5” barrels.
     
  11. OFADAN

    OFADAN Brownsville, OR Well-Known Member

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    Another thought depending upon what kind of critters you're concerned about is the Remington NPSS .22 Air Rifle. It will whack vermin out to 50 to 75 yards on a calm day and only sounds like someone just closed the screen door to your house (not slammed but closed) or someone used a non-powered staple gun to staple a target to a target stand.

    These rifles are using a Nitrogen powered piston instead of a spring. Spring rifles generally are noisier because the spring makes the most noise. These are one of the quietest on the market now...even more so than the Gamo Whisper which had the lead for a number of years.

    I've seen on the Outdoor channel some folks are hunting deer with the .50 cal Air Rifles. They are more powerful than the little Daisy I had as a kid!

    I'm really impressed with how ridiculously quiet these rifles are and how effective they are...just a thought if keeping a low noise profile is of concern.
     
  12. judicator

    judicator McMinnville Active Member

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    For backyard pests, I use a romanian M69 with the Aquila primer-only .22s. Extremely quiet, accurate and effective enough on anything under ten pounds.
     
  13. Muddman

    Muddman Aloha Member

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    For backyard pests I would use a Henry 22 Rifle and use 22 CCI CB shorts or longs eitherworks fine in this lever action rifle.
    I have used this combination out in the woods many
    times with no issues.
     
  14. jhc5

    jhc5 Seattle, WA Member

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    Thanks for all the great info guys. Sounds like Dad is gonna try a few different rounds in his Mark II and a marlin bolt gun he's borrowing next weekend at the range, then take a look at what's in stock locally. He liked the air rifle idea as well, but I think he (not so) secretly wants to use his pest problem to justify picking up another 22. :D
     
  15. Ranb

    Ranb Belfair, WA Active Member

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    I have shot 22lr hypersonic, HV, subsonic and CB in bolt and semi-auto rifles and semi-auto and single shot pistols. All with and without silencers except for the CB’s in a suppressed pistol. Nothing is quiet in the unsuppressed pistols, even the CB in a ten inch contender. Subsonic in my unsuppressed rifles is not very loud, but still requires hearing protection. I think the 22lr subsonic in a suppressed rifle is about the same as an unsuppressed CB in a rifle. In fact the CB in an unsuppressed rifle really impressed me with how quiet it was.

    I have never had a CB stick a bullet in the barrel, but I have only shot 50 of them. I would also not use a CB on anything bigger than a squirrel at close range. There definitely is no substitute for a suppressed subsonic 22lr.

    Ranb
     
  16. darkminstrel

    darkminstrel PDX Well-Known Member

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    AR-7 with Aguilla Super Collibri. 2k rounds, not one squib. No louder than our air rifles. Great raccoon deterrent.
     
  17. cyclesarge

    cyclesarge Eugene OR, DUH! We're ALL in the NORTHWEST Well-Known Member

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    No, You were right. Pistols ARE louder than rifles with the same ammo. Try this shoot a rifle and then shoot the same round out of a pistol AT ARMS LENGTH (which puts the muzzle about the same distance from your ear) and see which one is louder. I can shoot a AR with a .22lr upper all day with out hearing protection with CCI Standard Velocities, but shooting my 4" Buckmark at arms length has my ears ringing after a couple rounds of the same ammo.

    Something to consider about perceived loudness. If you are shooting (even with CB's) where you are not supposed to be shooting, it is going to seem a LOT louder than a place where it is acceptable to be shooting. So the air rifle MIGHT be the best choice.
     
  18. Tom S.

    Tom S. Hillsboro, Ore. New Member

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    I've got an old Winchester .22 lever action rifle, model 69A. It says right on the gun that it will accept short, long and LR ammo and I've used all three types. Shorts are much quieter than LR, but I suspect would probably still poke a hole in a squirrel. My Taurus .22 revolver is stamped ".22 LR", and does not mention the other ammo on the gun or in the manual. I shot a few longs and shorts through it the other day and it worked fine. Was that a bad thing to do?
     
  19. Iansstud

    Iansstud SW WA / PDX Member

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    I shoot ALOT of Aguila Colibri ammo from my P22 and Model 60 tube fed.

    I can tell you that the P22 will still have a little 'pop' and the model 60 makes only the click form the firing pin, and that is IT! its DEAD quiet!!! anyways, Longer barrels will ALWAYS be quieter if the ammo is subsonic!!! it has more time to burn powder, and cool the gasses.

    The only time a rifle will be louder is with super-sonic ammo. It may have time to build pressure/FPS in the barrel of a rifle and then will give off a crack, where as the pistol my not be able to shoot the same ammo at super-sonic speeds.








    P.S. I have shot remington, CCI and Aguila subsonics out of my P22, 22/45, Woodsman, and model 60 rifle just fine. the only time it will not cycle subsonics is when I use remington, and I get a dud.
     
  20. d1esel

    d1esel Ridgefield WA. Member

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    Cyclesarge makes a good point. A airgun is not considered a firearm. And that could save your bacon if you think someone may object to your activities.