Would it be legal to sell two pistols at once to someone?

[156256Hunter]

If the private sale of two pistols at once occurs in Oregon, and both parties are Oregon residents (and both are legal to own firearms)? I did some research but haven't found anything saying otherwise. Anyone know?

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[Morpheus]

To my knowledge, as long as it isn't over the Gunshow limit of firearms for sale then you are fine.

Especially if, as you state, everyone is a resident of the same state and both parties can legally own the firearms in that state.

 

[RicInOR]

There are plenty of historical sales - of matched pairs, sets, dueling pistols and the like.

Is this that kind of transfer ?

 

[2Wheels4Ever]

One pistol is fine for these here parts, but TWO PISTOLS!!! How dare you sell someone two pistols! Once Obama hears of this you guys are both in deep bubblegum!

Sarcasm aside, there is no limit on how many guns you sell or buy from a private party. People buy collections of guns all the time.

 

[BigStick]

2Wheels is right. No limits on sales in personal transactoins in private party sales.

 

[rick benjamin]

Who's to know?

 

[156256Hunter]

There are plenty of historical sales - of matched pairs, sets, dueling pistols and the like.

Is this that kind of transfer ?

Nope, not that kind of transfer.

But thanks for all the input guys. I asked because I heard that if an FFL sells two or more pistols to someone within 5 (business?) days, then the FFL has to notify local law enforcement. Or something like that.

 

[Modeler]

I asked because I heard that if an FFL sells two or more pistols to someone within 5 (business?) days, then the FFL has to notify local law enforcement. Or something like that.

That's true, there is extra paperwork for an FFL for selling more than one handgun at once to a person. But they're also required to do other stuff you aren't required to do as a private seller, like background checks, bound book record, 4473, etc....

 

[BillM]

2Wheels is right. No limits on sales in personal transactoins in private party sales.

Pretty much but not 100%. If there are over 25 guns for sale on the
premises, even if it's a private sale, garage sale, estate sale, flea market
or whatever----it's a gun show under the law and background checks are required. I've never heard of it being enforced, but it is the law. That's Oregon. No idea what other states
require.

 

[The Heretic]

Yeah, I was reading somewhere (one of the oregon gun law sites) about a 20 something limit - as I recall it was 25 or 26, so 25 sounds right.

There was also the issue of estate sales and a collection sale.

Beyond that, if the BATF determines that you are in the business of buying and then selling then there are issues, and part of that is the number of firearms involved over a period of time.

Part of that may be whether you take possession/"title" (ownership?) of a firearm and charge a consignment, etc.

Look at the beginning of the second page here:

https://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-96-2.pdf

 

[BigStick]

Interesting. WA has no such restrictions that I know of. I guess when I was in OR, I didn't read quite as in depth into the laws as I have up here.

Would have liked to see them apply that to the ceasefire people giving up guns at the buyback and slap them with a huge fine.

 

[hyrax222]

That's true, there is extra paperwork for an FFL for selling more than one handgun at once to a person. But they're also required to do other stuff you aren't required to do as a private seller, like background checks, bound book record, 4473, etc....

Don't forget that FFL's can be subjected to a once yearly compliance check by the BATFE. If your business is in your home you may have to leave while they go through your books, inventory, and anywhere else they want to search in your "store".

 

[Nwcid]

Why would you have to leave?

 

[hyrax222]

I should have said "stand outside". This was reported to me by another FFL. I don't know the reason. Maybe they don't like people watching them "work"?

 

[The B]

Yeah, I was reading somewhere (one of the oregon gun law sites) about a 20 something limit - as I recall it was 25 or 26, so 25 sounds right.

There was also the issue of estate sales and a collection sale.

Beyond that, if the BATF determines that you are in the business of buying and then selling then there are issues, and part of that is the number of firearms involved over a period of time.

Part of that may be whether you take possession/"title" (ownership?) of a firearm and charge a consignment, etc.

Look at the beginning of the second page here:

https://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-96-2.pdf

166.432 Definitions for ORS 166.412 and 166.433 to 166.441. (1) As used in ORS 166.412, 166.433, 166.434, 166.436 and 166.438, "criminal background check" or "criminal history record check" means determining the eligibility of a person to purchase or possess a firearm by reviewing state and federal databases including, but not limited to, the:

(a) Oregon computerized criminal history system;

(b) Oregon mental health data system;

(c) Law Enforcement Data System;

(d) National Instant Criminal Background Check System; and

(e) Stolen guns system.

(2) As used in ORS 166.433, 166.434, 166.436, 166.438 and 166.441:

(a) "Gun dealer" has the meaning given that term in ORS 166.412.

(b) "Gun show" means an event at which more than 25 firearms are on site and available for transfer. [2001 c.1 §3]


Note: 166.432, 166.433 and 166.445 were enacted into law but were not added to or made a part of ORS chapter 166 or any series therein by law. See Preface to Oregon Revised Statutes for further explanation.


166.433 Findings regarding transfers of firearms. The people of this state find that:

(1) The laws of Oregon regulating the sale of firearms contain a loophole that allows people other than gun dealers to sell firearms at gun shows without first conducting criminal background checks;

(2) It is necessary for the safety of the people of Oregon that any person who transfers a firearm at a gun show be required to request a criminal background check before completing the transfer of the firearm; and

(3) It is in the best interests of the people of Oregon that any person who transfers a firearm at any location other than a gun show be allowed to voluntarily request a criminal background check before completing the transfer of the firearm. [2001 c.1 §1]


Note: See note under 166.432.

 

[Nwcid]

I should have said "stand outside". This was reported to me by another FFL. I don't know the reason. Maybe they don't like people watching them "work"?

Interesting. I can find NO reference to any of that after doing an extensive search for anything similar happening.

All of the reports of inspections and information on the ATF site says the FFL has to provide them, meaning it would be hard to do from outside, certain info and paperwork.

Also the ATF can not disrupt your business. What if you have customers? They are not asked to leave. You continue business as usual. Again hard to do from outside.

I am not saying it might not ever happen but seems odd and would raise bigger questions......

 

[hyrax222]

I am refering to "in home", small, kitchen table, out of pocket, etc. type of FFL holder.

 

[The B]

I am refering to "in home", small, kitchen table, out of pocket, etc. type of FFL holder.

Sounds like a total load of crap. Don't listen to gunshow experts.

 

[Edpamp]

The supposed reason that dealers are required to fill out ATF form 3310.4 "Report of multiple sale or other deposition of pistols or handguns" Is to catch "straw" purchases.The forms are supposedly reviewed by the ATF to see if a person is making additional multiple purchase thru other dealers. So I was told by the ATF.