worst place to be

[mjbskwim]

Cool story Thebastidge

All I can agree with is your patriotism and I thank you for your service

Other than that,IF the world want you to be their mercenary (which is just what you are,fighting for someones oil money,not really to defend us) then I have to say I can't care about that 'poor child in china eating'

STOP BREEDING IF YOU CAN'T FEED 'EM

I do respect the fact that you have joined the military and are fighting for us.But I don't believe the government has our best interest in mind and therefor you are someones mercenary.

The world complains about us,but they know they can count on us to come protect them.
We need all those jobs here.We need to bring back all the manufacturing we have lost

If the world wants YOU to go protect them.

Then,after we have gotten out of dept and have our financial heads above water,we can go make a meal for that 'poor Chinese kid'

If we want to be a super force in the world and if WE are going to send our kids to fight and die for US (big business mostly) or our allies, WE need to worry about US first.

Then WE can afford to fight other countries battles and defend foreign oil that we think WE NEED (we want it for our big trucks and SUV.no need involved)

We have allowed millions of people from all over the world come to America and live here.Just like what has happened from the beginning. Just what happened when my ancestors came here.
Now we need to put all those people to work,let them pay bills,buy stuff,spend THEIR money,not the governments

WE as a country have drove ourselves into this mess.Wasn't Oboma,Bush,Clinton,Daddy Bush,the congress,the lobbyist,the banks,the finance companies,or the banks

IT WAS THE CITIZENS. The ones with all the rights.The ones with FREE WILL.The ones who had to have tht car,boar,RV,HUGE house that the really couldn't afford.
WE wanted 'cheaper' goods not better quality. WE are the one who kept buying foreign goods from the manufacturers who sent our jobs over seas.
WE voted for that incumbent that WE thought had OUR best interest in mind

WE allowed this to happen

Now it's time to pay the piper
Now WE have to get this back on tract.WE need to let the economy fall and start over,or we will never survive.

If this doesn't reach rock bottom,the country will not last.

 

[Just Jim]

IT WAS THE CITIZENS. The ones with all the rights.The ones with FREE WILL.The ones who had to have tht car,boar,RV,HUGE house that the really couldn't afford.
WE wanted 'cheaper' goods not better quality. WE are the one who kept buying foreign goods from the manufacturers who sent our jobs over seas.
WE voted for that incumbent that WE thought had OUR best interest in mind

WE allowed this to happen

Now it's time to pay the piper
Now WE have to get this back on tract.WE need to let the economy fall and start over,or we will never survive.

If this doesn't reach rock bottom,the country will not last.

I can't understand this type of thinking. This depression was caused by the government, we didn't cause it. Americans have allways worked hard to improve their living standards and if they obtain wealth it is their business what they do with the wealth. Odd how those who have worked hard to get their SUV or what ever are now demonized for haveing it. America would have never of grown to the high standards we have if people didn't buy things and it takes hard work to have those things.

jj

 

[Trlsmn]

The worst place to be in a political upheaval or natural disaster is anywhere that has lots of people are relying on government handouts before the disaster. Quickly put distance between you and them.

The Superdome during Katrina is a great really world example. If the government tells you tell assemble at one place, go 180° in the opposite direction.

 

[Gunner3456]

The worst place to be in a political upheaval or natural disaster is anywhere that has lots of people are relying on government handouts before the disaster. Quickly put distance between you and them.

The Superdome during Katrina is a great really world example. If the government tells you tell assemble at one place, go 180° in the opposite direction.

I agree. They should have gone in the direction of THIS Katrina.

Katrina

No, I agree 100%. Get away from crowds and government, and head for the hills to freedom.

 

[mjbskwim]

I can't understand this type of thinking. This depression was caused by the government, we didn't cause it. Americans have allways worked hard to improve their living standards and if they obtain wealth it is their business what they do with the wealth. Odd how those who have worked hard to get their SUV or what ever are now demonized for haveing it. America would have never of grown to the high standards we have if people didn't buy things and it takes hard work to have those things.

jj

Worked hard to get their SUV? Did they pay cash or did they go into hock? And then go into hock for those "22's" and the rim protectors?
Again,WE as free people signed the contracts for things we didn't have money for but just had to have.
That 50in TV?
That second car,or third? heck it's only $300 a month
That RV,Boat,Harley,that the Jones' have so we have to have one.

OOPS,that job didn't go through,the contracts weren't signed in time,the permits haven't come back....take this week off

OOPS,I can't survive on only 3 weeks a month.

WE thought it would never end and spent money like it grew on trees.

Sorry WE,the people with free will got into too many payments and then the money stopped.

BTW,the government alone did this? Who voted them in? (Yeah say all you want about rigged elections.If it was a land slide they couldn't do that.)
Who keeps voting in the incumbents,letting them have the nice cushy job and do what they are told by lobbyists instaed of US.

Yes WE let this happen while we were driving our new Escalades home to the huge house with that funny sounding mortgage,to watch the new 50in flat screen

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

Worked hard to get their SUV? Did they pay cash or did they go into hock? And then go into hock for those "22's" and the rim protectors?
Again,WE as free people signed the contracts for things we didn't have money for but just had to have.
That 50in TV?
That second car,or third? heck it's only $300 a month
That RV,Boat,Harley,that the Jones' have so we have to have one.

OOPS,that job didn't go through,the contracts weren't signed in time,the permits haven't come back....take this week off

OOPS,I can't survive on only 3 weeks a month.

WE thought it would never end and spent money like it grew on trees.

Sorry WE,the people with free will got into too many payments and then the money stopped.

BTW,the government alone did this? Who voted them in? (Yeah say all you want about rigged elections.If it was a land slide they couldn't do that.)
Who keeps voting in the incumbents,letting them have the nice cushy job and do what they are told by lobbyists instaed of US.

Yes WE let this happen while we were driving our new Escalades home to the huge house with that funny sounding mortgage,to watch the new 50in flat screen

I will happily take my fair share of the blame for the mess we're in, and suffer whatever is reasonable for my actions. What I will NOT do is let the bastards off the hook that we trusted to be drivin the country for crashing the whole thing down around our ears out of greed and lust for power...

 

[Just Jim]

Worked hard to get their SUV? Did they pay cash or did they go into hock? And then go into hock for those "22's" and the rim protectors?
Again,WE as free people signed the contracts for things we didn't have money for but just had to have.
That 50in TV?
That second car,or third? heck it's only $300 a month
That RV,Boat,Harley,that the Jones' have so we have to have one.

OOPS,that job didn't go through,the contracts weren't signed in time,the permits haven't come back....take this week off

OOPS,I can't survive on only 3 weeks a month.

WE thought it would never end and spent money like it grew on trees.

Sorry WE,the people with free will got into too many payments and then the money stopped.

BTW,the government alone did this? Who voted them in? (Yeah say all you want about rigged elections.If it was a land slide they couldn't do that.)
Who keeps voting in the incumbents,letting them have the nice cushy job and do what they are told by lobbyists instaed of US.

Yes WE let this happen while we were driving our new Escalades home to the huge house with that funny sounding mortgage,to watch the new 50in flat screen

Yes I worked hard and paid cash for most of what I have (all of which is paid for). I voted for the most conservative candidates. I watched for years as all those I did vote for didn't do the right things. I watched as they ruined our capitalistic system and turn it into an anti gun socialist society. Each time I would try to vote them out to no avail as the next progressive just made life worse for us all.

Thing is the progressives need money to make their dreams come true, all while they have destroyed the economy. When people quit buying all those things you hate then the economy tanks, imagine that You see it's products that make jobs and the fools who say we don't need all that stuff are not going to have jobs. Which is one of the worst places to be

jj

 

[riverrat373]

The Superdome during Katrina is a great really world example. If the government tells you tell assemble at one place, go 180° in the opposite direction.

You got that right!

 

[Partsproduction]

You guys talking about goods made elsewhere, are you including ever increasing government intervention in small businesses in the blame? Taxation is half of it, over management of business is the other side of that coin, and I don't know of a single business that ever asked government for more stupid rules.

But that is part of the concept of big government, it's really a Democrat concept.

 

[Thebastidge]

I did about half of an MBA before I decided I don't want to work in a large, publicly traded company doing quarterly reports for a living.

Lots of businesses ask the government for more rules. Short-sightedly, they ask for rules that favour the incumbent over new entrants. Then the rule sgets changed slightly to favour one company over another, or the environment changes and the old model is no longer best, but the regulatory environment makes it difficult to change, and they are hoist on their own petard. There's plenty of dicussion in business school about cultivating favourable legislative environments. Sadly, there's not much talk about getting rid of regulation, even when there is discussion of how it hobbles innovation.

We the people are largely to blame for over-extending ourselves, but there are elements encouraging us to do fololish things, like use too much credit. Nobody says you have to do this, but it's become commonplace and "normal".

For the record, I am no longer in the military, I'm a DoD contractor now, and I guarantee the conflict in Afghanistan is not about oil. There isn't any here. There is much of ANYTHING here. There are good reasons for America to be the world police. Read, "The Pentagon's New Map" for a good discussion of it. I'm not necessarily saying it's the best choice, but there are reasons behind it.

I also am not advocating us feeding the world out of charity. What I am saying is that free trade is best for everybody. In a freely agreed-to trade, BOTH parties win. Both parties have too much of something and not enough of something else to begin with, and at the end have remedied part of that undesirable situation. This is the basic reason why we are not all living in caves still. We have re-invested surpluses rather than consuming them, we have specialized in our skills, and we have engaged in trade to maximize the benefits we receive from our surpluses.

Protectionism doesn't protect the country as a whole, it benefits a very few people at the expense of everyone else. Comparative advantage shows that we won't lose all of our capability to supply ourselves, no matter how good the deal is elsewhere, unless regulation makes it impractical to produce things here. Pure market pressures won't drive all of our jobs elsewhere, but goverment interference might.

 

[Gunner3456]

I Have to stop and think how many things we don't make here any more. TV's, LED screens and monitors, cell phones and iPod equivalents, few clothes, shoes, boots, leather goods (Go to a Harley Dealer and find the the branded boots are made in China and the jackets are made in Pakistan) and so on. We really aren't self sufficient any more.

I used to think that big business with lobbyists pushed for the regulations because they had the staff and ability to comply, but those same regulations overwhelmed small businesses with rules and paperwork. If that's true, it finally got so out of control that even the big businesses fled our shores to escape it.

Those jobs making hot water heaters and TV's and dishwashers and Nike shoes and Harley boots and jackets etc. are gone. We won't drill for our own oil and we won't log much of our forests so we buy it from Canada and the ME. Our traditional manufacturing cities are in ruins and the jobs are gone.

The Federal Government and many states (California) are awash in red ink.

It ain't purty.

 

[Partsproduction]

I should have said "I don't know of a single small business that asked for more rules. All I want is for government to leave me and my business alone. Anyone who has run a business knows what I'm talking about. My point is that the reason businesses go offshore, and that includes small businesses, is because the environment offshore is better. True, wages are typically lower, but most of the harassment by government involves employers treatment of employees. OSHA is a good example. Now we'll hear about what wonderfully great things OSHA has done from people who have never had OSHA threatening them!
So, you make widgets, you put up with gov't until you are fed up and keep your office here and a warehouse maybe and send money to Singapore and get containers back, most of the gov't crap is gone! I just woke up, I can't think of all the times I've been threatened by my own government because I decided to open my own business. We produce the wealth of a nation, not government, we provide jobs that actually do something, not government. Why do we let government threaten us?

Easier to have them made in Singapore.

 

[Gunner3456]

I should have said "I don't know of a single small business that asked for more rules. All I want is for government to leave me and my business alone. Anyone who has run a business knows what I'm talking about. My point is that the reason businesses go offshore, and that includes small businesses, is because the environment offshore is better. True, wages are typically lower, but most of the harassment by government involves employers treatment of employees. OSHA is a good example. Now we'll hear about what wonderfully great things OSHA has done from people who have never had OSHA threatening them!
So, you make widgets, you put up with gov't until you are fed up and keep your office here and a warehouse maybe and send money to Singapore and get containers back, most of the gov't crap is gone! I just woke up, I can't think of all the times I've been threatened by my own government because I decided to open my own business. We produce the wealth of a nation, not government, we provide jobs that actually do something, not government. Why do we let government threaten us?

Easier to have them made in Singapore.

Right on. The workers in the US must be blind or stupid.

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

Nevermind.

 

[Thebastidge]

Again. Don't believe the Big Lie that we don't make things here any more. We make a lot of stuff in the US. We manufacture more stuff now than we did in the 70s. It just doesn't take as many people to accomplish, because we very efficiently automtate the process.

 

[Gunner3456]

Again. Don't believe the Big Lie that we don't make things here any more. We make a lot of stuff in the US. We manufacture more stuff now than we did in the 70s. It just doesn't take as many people to accomplish, because we very efficiently automtate the process.

Note this if from the liberal Huffington Post.

by Leo Hindery, Jr., The Huffington Post, June 21, 2011

Why We Need a Manufacturing Renaissance – Economically and Ethically

Anyone deeply concerned about the current almost unprecedented real unemployment rate of more than 18% and about the ongoing jobless recovery must first focus on resuscitating our depleted manufacturing sector. Especially given the current political mood in Washington concerning new federal expenditures, this focus will necessarily require the Obama administration to seriously rethink its approach to trade, particularly toward China.

There are many economic imperatives behind this conclusion. At the same time, the ethical imperative for (again) having a robust manufacturing sector is central to our national well-being. Yet just as the economic imperatives are often overlooked, so is the ethical imperative very often dismissed out of insensitivity or otherwise put aside in deference to our culture of greed.

Structurally speaking, no economy as large, complex and geographically far-flung as ours can prosper over the long term with less than 20-25% of its workers being in manufacturing and without the sector contributing a similar percentage of GDP. Yet as it is, only around 9% of Americans now work in manufacturing, and as a percent of our GDP, the sector provides just 11% of the total.

[B]The proof of this conclusion is found in history, starting with the forty years leading up to the Second World War, when the percent of U.S. employment in manufacturing was a fairly consistent 30% [/B]or so, and followed by the three decades thereafter, when, despite the introduction of new service sector jobs as post-War manufacturing incomes rose, such percent still consistently hovered at around 25%. These seventy years of robust manufacturing were — it's no coincidence — generally robust years for the middle class as well, hallmarked by wide-scale new home construction and new car ownership, quality public school education for the nation's youth, and fair salaries with relatively little income inequality.

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[Sasquatchvnv]

Again. Don't believe the Big Lie that we don't make things here any more. We make a lot of stuff in the US. We manufacture more stuff now than we did in the 70s. It just doesn't take as many people to accomplish, because we very efficiently automtate the process.

Seriously? When was the last time you went shopping? China has been given most of our manufacturing - what little hasn't left the country is on its way. Whole factories boxed up and shipped away. Insanity - unless you realize the plan is to take this country down from the inside.

 

[Partsproduction]

unless you realize the plan is to take this country down from the inside.

That's the part that was hard to accept, that the plan was to destroy America, it's hard to believe, but the facts present allow no other conclusion.

 

[Thebastidge]

The numbers on manufacturing are out there and available to check. Lefties give the nod to the manufacturing sector because (outside of government) manufacturing is the most heavily unionized and therefore easier to mobilize as a voting bloc. It doesn't mean the lefties sare going to actually do anything that would be good for our manufacturing base, it just means they will cater to a few big manufacturers, and the unions that are involved. Bailing out GM was a bad move- if GM had gone bankrupt and been forced to re-structure, smaller, leaner, and more agil manufacturers would have had a chance, but as it is, we've favoured a few large manufacturing oligarchies over small, independent busiensses fo rdecades. CAFE standards make it pretty much impossible for a smaller business to break into the auto industry and indulge in creative disruption.

We need smaller businesses making innovations. But that's not because of the absolute volume, it's more for the agility.

 

[MikeE]

The numbers on manufacturing are out there and available to check. Lefties give the nod to the manufacturing sector because (outside of government) manufacturing is the most heavily unionized and therefore easier to mobilize as a voting bloc. It doesn't mean the lefties sare going to actually do anything that would be good for our manufacturing base, it just means they will cater to a few big manufacturers, and the unions that are involved. Bailing out GM was a bad move- if GM had gone bankrupt and been forced to re-structure, smaller, leaner, and more agil manufacturers would have had a chance, but as it is, we've favoured a few large manufacturing oligarchies over small, independent busiensses fo rdecades. CAFE standards make it pretty much impossible for a smaller business to break into the auto industry and indulge in creative disruption.

We need smaller businesses making innovations. But that's not because of the absolute volume, it's more for the agility.

I was not much of a fan of the GM bailout, as structured. But if it had gone bankrupt, it would NOT have been broken up into learner more agile businesses. It would have been 'asset stripped', boxed up and carted off.
It would be nice to see the rule of law actually applied to the major criminals, for a change:
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