Washington Woodland Park Zoo CHL

[Certaindeaf]

Didn't they have to 30-06 Harambe? You obviously need a 30-06.

 

[cigars]

These situations are the only reason I own an LCP.

When all else fails....tube sock with half a pound of butter In the bottom. If no butter is available, a can of condensed tomato soup will do.

 

[RicInOR]

edited to highlight my point. Do not take this as picking on Nick.

the chance of printing or accidental exposure is high, so my question is:

Why?

Are you planning to open carry an MSR ?

If you are properly carrying, the likelihood of detection is low.

If you are not certain about that, practice now. Especially any movement you are likely to have - like picking up a child, lifting a bag to the roof rack of your vehicle, entering and sitting picnic tables and the like.
I also like printed / patterned shirts if light weight.


appropriated from internet search




Maybe you meant that the risk of getting caught would have serious implications. Not that you are likely to get caught, but that if you do it would be bad.
Is the risk worth it? That is something you can only answer for yourself.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

These situations are the only reason I own an LCP.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

No interaction with staff, but I've been there!
LCP in a pocket holster. Do you have a WA CHL, Nick?

Ruger LC9s in a pocket holster is my regular EDC, but I usually take a full size Beretta Px4 Storm when we visit the big city.
Yes, I have an Oregon and a Utah CHL. I just read that Seattle is the #2 city for getting your firearm stolen out of your car.

 

[slimmer13]

View attachment 349611

I was planning on using the laser to distract it like a cat.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Ok, I just tried pocket carrying my LC9s with a fabric holster in my shorts and it prints bad. I have a kydex clamshell IWB holster for it, but like to wear an A-shirt tucked in to keep it from rubbing my side then have a large untucked polo shirt over for cover. I guess that I will have to be hot or get a StealthGear or AlienGear hybrid holster instead.

 

[WALawyer]

Woodland Park Zoo is managed by a private 501(c)(3) nonprofit, hence I think the same rules apply as the stadiums re: concealed carry.

About Us - Woodland Park Zoo Seattle WA

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Woodland Park Zoo is managed by a private 501(c)(3) nonprofit, hence I think the same rules apply as the stadiums re: concealed carry.

About Us - Woodland Park Zoo Seattle WA

Yes, I can see the validity of both opinions. Privately managed but still publicly owned by the City of Seattle so the Washington State preemption of local firearm restrictions should still apply. The stadiums are used (leased?) by private businesses so they can "get away with" skirting state law is by using metal detectors and requiring searches at the entrances. I was very impressed with the security and police presence at my last Seahawks game both inside and outside of the stadium, but disappointed at how quickly it evaporated once the game ended and the national TV cameras turned off.

I may have to settle for the LC9s IWB and transfer most of my medical EDC to a fanny pack so I don't look lopsided.

At least it is not like in Texas where 30.06 no concealed carry and 30.07 no open carry signs have the force of law.

 

[WALawyer]

No, the Washington Supreme Court has already ruled that preemption does not apply "when a municipality acts in a capacity that is comparable to that of a private party." 158 Wn.2d 342 (2006). It is not a matter of skirting state law, it's actually state law.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

No, the Washington Supreme Court has already ruled that preemption does not apply "when a municipality acts in a capacity that is comparable to that of a private party." 158 Wn.2d 342 (2006). It is not a matter of skirting state law, it's actually state law.

I skimmed the case 158 Wn. 2d. 342, Oct. 2006 Pac. Nw. Shooting Park bubblegum'n v. City of Sequim

So the municipality's authority to regulate sales of firearms in municipal stadiums and convention centers flows from its authority to regulate the possession of firearms in those facilities.

Why does the City have authority to regulate the possession of firearms in municipal stadiums and convention centers and how does this apply to the City owned Zoo property which is neither?

 

[WrenchNguns]

Ok, I just tried pocket carrying my LC9s with a fabric holster in my shorts and it prints bad. I have a kydex clamshell IWB holster for it, but like to wear an A-shirt tucked in to keep it from rubbing my side then have a large untucked polo shirt over for cover. I guess that I will have to be hot or get a StealthGear or AlienGear hybrid holster instead.

I like my Alien Gear holster. Not too bad when it's warm out.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

I am really trying to wrap my head around all this legalese, so I dug deeper.

Pacific Northwest Shooting Park Association v. City of Sequim, 158 Wn.2d 342, 144 P.3d 276 (2006). The Association wanted to hold a gun show in the city convention center. The conditional use permit issued by the City of Sequim imposed three conditions on the ability of licensed and unlicensed gun dealers to sell or exchange firearms. The Association argued that these conditions were preempted by RCW 9.41.290. The Court disagreed. According to the Court, "Cherry supports the general proposition that when a municipality acts in a capacity that is comparable to that of a private party, the preemption clause does not apply." Pacific Northwest Shooting Park, 158 Wn.2d at 357. The Court concluded that a "municipality acts in a proprietary capacity when it acts as the proprietor of a business enterprise for the private advantage of the municipality and it may exercise its business powers in much the same way as a private individual or corporation." Id. (citations and internal quotation marks omitted). Therefore, "y issuing a temporary use permit, the city was leasing its property to PNSPA and acting in its private capacity as a property owner."

Since the City is leasing out municipal stadiums and convention centers as a "Private Business" it gets to determine the restrictions of those leases. However, I would argue that since the City of Seattle allows the WOODLAND PARK ZOOLOGICAL SOCIETY (a non-profit public benefit corporation organized in 1965 for charitable, scientific and educational purposes for the study and promotion of zoology and wildlife conservation and for the education and recreation of the public.) to "manage' the zoo at no cost, that the City is not acting in a capacity that is comparable to that of a private party therefore the preemption clause does apply. It makes no difference if a public park or zoo facility is managed by the City or its designated non-profit, because the both are for the benefit of the public and not as business to generate revenue for the City.

Seattle City Council Bills and Ordinances

Does the defense's case hold water?

 

[Certaindeaf]

I read in an American Rifleman a long time ago of some fella always wanting to go on safari was diagnosed with terminal cancer. He went to the Bronx zoo and took the big-5 with his safari rifle.
This was pre-internet so he was unable to start a thread on it to see what everyone thought of it.. otherwise I'm sure he would have.

 

[DunRanull]

One issue that would give me pause is that - if I read you correctly- you will be Out Of State... not good from the POV of whatever interstate laws may apply..and if the sign at the entrance says no guns concealed or otherwise, having to 'splain things to ANYbody could be uncomfortable at best, tho they may just tell you to put it in your car (doubtful in a big city these days), or kick you out of the park...
My own answer to these things is to either wear loose enuff pants with a shirt that hangs low on the waist... pocket carry OR carry some kind of bag, camera case, munchies-pack... or the like, with the 2nd Amendment in an easily accessable pocket. Of course IF they "wand and search", that might not work either.. Have you considered BDU's with an ankle holster?

 

[DunRanull]

Heck, it's a zoo, I'd just open carry a honey badger - honey badger don't take no sh!t, honey badger don't give a f$ck

Well I SUPPOSE one could drop a honey badger down his pants for unobstrusive concealed carry...
But the last honey badger I had cost me a lotta money and my good credit before she run off...

 

[RicInOR]

I read in an American Rifleman a long time ago of some fella always wanting to go on safari was diagnosed with terminal cancer. He went to the Bronx zoo and took the big-5 with his safari rifle.
This was pre-internet so he was unable to start a thread on it to see what everyone thought of it.. otherwise I'm sure he would have.

And, he got the state to pay for his cancer treatments, because we give medical to inmates.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

One issue that would give me pause is that - if I read you correctly- you will be Out Of State... not good from the POV of whatever interstate laws may apply..and if the sign at the entrance says no guns concealed or otherwise, having to 'splain things to ANYbody could be uncomfortable at best, tho they may just tell you to put it in your car (doubtful in a big city these days), or kick you out of the park...
My own answer to these things is to either wear loose enuff pants with a shirt that hangs low on the waist... pocket carry OR carry some kind of bag, camera case, munchies-pack... or the like, with the 2nd Amendment in an easily accessable pocket. Of course IF they "wand and search", that might not work either.. Have you considered BDU's with an ankle holster?

I don't see how in-state vs out of state makes a difference. Guys on the open carry forum said they just got a hand stamp for returning at the entrance incase they were asked to leave and escorted out at any point. Since signs do not have the force of law discovery "should" only result in being asked to put it in the car. I am just worried about some snowflake overreacting and going straight to having the police trespass me. I have no idea what the actual sign says or where at the entrance it was located. Their website only states:

For the safety of our animals and visitors, please: No balloons, BBQs, balls, weapons, radios, skates, skateboards, bicycles, flying discs, scooters, straws, lids or alcohol.

Last summer while driving north of Spokane we passed Cat Tails Big Cat Sanctuary and decided to visit on the way back. I didn't see any terms of entry on the website Home They have a large sign at the entrance that we stopped and read on the way in. It mostly listed rules and reminded parents to control their kids. I pocket carried then, but don't remember what I was wearing (BDUs maybe). No signs at the ticket kiosk either so we paid and went in. Right after the booth there was a BIG SIGN that stated No Firearms except for On Duty Law Enforcement. Well hells bells, I was already in the park. Nobody noticed. The place was more of a run down animal shelter that takes care of pets that rich jerks abandon when they get too big.

Back to the Woodland Park Zoo, if anyone goes before August please take a picture of any signs and relate your experience if carrying.

Thank you.

 

[WALawyer]

However, I would argue that since the City of Seattle allows the WOODLAND PARK ZOOLOGICAL SOCIETY (a non-profit public benefit corporation organized in 1965 for charitable, scientific and educational purposes for the study and promotion of zoology and wildlife conservation and for the education and recreation of the public.) to "manage' the zoo at no cost, that the City is not acting in a capacity that is comparable to that of a private party therefore the preemption clause does apply.

You made a wild assumption with no basis. In fact, the City of Seattle/Woodland contract states:

"5.2.1 Fee and Escalation. Subject to Section 5.2.2 below, the City shall transfer to WPZS an annual operations payment (the "Operations Support") equal to FIVE MILLION DOLLARS ($5,000,000.00) in the first Fiscal Year of this Agreement. For each year thereafter, the Operations Support shall be escalated by seventy (70) percent of the increase in the Consumer Price Index for Urban Wage Earners and Clerical Workers for the Seattle-Tacoma-Bremerton area, or its functional successor, measured as of June 30 of the prior year. The Operations Support shall be paid to WPZS in twelve equal monthly installments on or before the fifteenth (15th) day of each month. In the event that the Effective Date is not the first day of a Fiscal Year, the first year's Operations Support shall be reduced pro rata. Operations Support in all subsequent years shall be calculated as if the first year's payment had been the full annual amount." Seattle City Council Bills and Ordinances

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Doesn't that strengthen my case? Unlike municipal stadiums and convention centers where the City is paid by the sports teams and event promoters, the City is paying the WOODLAND PARK ZOOLOGICAL SOCIETY to manage the zoo and even dictates a minimum wage. It could be said the the WPZS is an agent of the City.