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Wolf = Endangered Species,... Again!

Discussion in 'Northwest Hunting' started by Jamie6.5, Aug 6, 2010.

  1. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Because they haven't recovered in WY, Judge Molloy thinks they haven't recovered adequately nationally.
    Gee, I wonder why the wolf proponents haven't sued every state within the gray wolf's historic range?

    Molloy orders reinstatement of gray wolf protections in Montana, Idaho

    The sad truth is, Canada has lots and lots of gray wolves. The species is actually nowhere near endangered.

    Once again the ESA is being used as a tool to stop hunters and promote an anti hunting and PETA based agenda.
    It is time to stop this madness.
     
  2. BigCat

    BigCat Portland Member

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    Wolves are tight, why would you want to kill them? Killing a few that come and attack your livestock is understandable, but that's all I can see justified.
     
  3. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

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    :eatpop:
     
  4. theflyguy

    theflyguy Beaverton, Oregon Member

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    +1
     
  5. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    You guys apparently don't understand the relatioships between predators and their prey species.

    This may help: Wildlife Sciences

    Wolves are NOT "tight." They are wildlife and livestock killing machines that breed like rats, and kill for sport/practice when their pups reach a certain age.
    Please check your Disney ideas of wolves and wildlife at the door and read the facts.
    In addition to their voracious appetites they can transmit parasites through their fecal leavings, to be picked up by dogs etc.

    So in addition to the 2 apex predators MT, WY and ID already have, (Grizz and cougar) wolves are being given a pass, and management measures outlined by knowledgeable game managers are being thwarted. North of I-90 in MT and ID, ranchers are not even allowed to haze them or harass them off of calves and/or lambs or even their dogs.
    Yet just a few miles north, across the Canadian border, the same species can be shot on sight and their numbers are not suffering.

    The gray wolf is NOT and endangered species!

    Additionally, as wolves expand into Oregon and Washington, non-hunters need to realize our states already have a cougar population problem. In Oregon, the current cougar population is conservatively estimated at over 6,000, 200% of the target number . Cougar hunting is now open all year 'round, and it remains to be seen if that will have an impact as a management tool. State paid contract hunters are being called up regularly to deal with cougars in populated areas. Black bears numbers are in a similar situation.

    The last thing OR and/or WA need is another apex predator. Deer, elk and even antelope numbers are being hit hard as it is.
    We need the wolf population in OR and WA to be controlled and monitored as it expands. The plan to restore wolves calls for this.
    Uncontrolled growth in ID will result in an uncontrollable explosion in numbers this side of the Snake River, as overcrowding pushes them westward.
     
  6. Decker

    Decker My house Active Member

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    Keep your dogs and cats inside, kids.

    -d
     
  7. 8ball

    8ball WA Quit talkin' and start chalking!

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    Lions are killing machines and apex predators too. That doesn't mean human beings can't aspire to a higher purpose.

    [youtube]rqhJuwUukX8[/youtube]
     
  8. turq

    turq Molino,oregon Member

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    All I know is where I hunt there is at least one/ 20 miles north of John Day.
    Will I let my pet Bird dog run out in that forest to find grouse for me to shoot?
    Never; Grouse hunting stopped by animal activists.
    Elk hunting gone down hill; over.
    Deer targeted by the tracks last year, over.

    They won.
     
  9. BigCat

    BigCat Portland Member

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    White Fang. /thread
     
  10. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    :huh: Sorry ya lost me there.
     
  11. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    This situation parallels some of what I have experience with here in southern california, but with different animals. California has overpopulation problems with a number of animals, cougars are a major problem here, as they alternatively fall under some conservation classification with the ESA, yet the populations are large enough that they come down into the city and attack people somewhat regularly. Coyotes are a similar issue, except the problem there is california's extremely restrictive shooting policies.

    My aunt (a rancher in northern california) has had to deal with some of this with wild pigs, there the problem is DFG won't issue a depredation permit, and instead requires a tag for each animal killed. The only upside, is whenever I feel like dropping $18 on a pig tag, I'm guaranteed to fill it within a few hours of getting up there.

    Wildlife management is just that, management. If you under-state, or over-state a problem it is very likely to explode on you. I suppose eventually nature will reestablish a balance between predators and prey, but that balance will be much more tenuous and take longer to achieve naturally than it would with sensible measures to check and control animal populations.

    Taking no action to manage animal populations (especially predators) is an action, which usually gives the worst results.
     
  12. 86-0134

    86-0134 north willamette valley Member

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    choke, gulp, choke,..........anyone have a tissue?:bawling:
     
  13. BigBull 301

    BigBull 301 PDX almost Well-Known Member

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    Shoot, shovel and shut up!
     
  14. elkcraz

    elkcraz oregon Member

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    ya that
     
  15. PBinWA

    PBinWA Clark County Well-Known Member

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    +1 ;)
     
  16. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

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    Law-abiding citizens, eh?
     
  17. BigCat

    BigCat Portland Member

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    If you move to the country, expect there to be wildlife. That's like moving to the city, and wanting to blow up shopping malls.
     
  18. PBinWA

    PBinWA Clark County Well-Known Member

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    What if you were born in the city and still wanted to blow up shopping malls? :confused:

    I think you might find that people that are against wolves being classified as endangered species tend to come from the country. Typically, it's the city folk that impose less than logical rules on the country people.
     
  19. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    How about we just listen to the people we hire to manage wildlife??
    How about we listen to the people that have lived there for decades/generations instead of the people that just moved there?
    Wildlife managers are pretty smart people that have demonstrated an extensive capacity to learn about, and direct policy on behalf of wildlife,... All wildlife, not just a single species.
    For the moment, interaction between humans and wildlife is far more prevalent in the country than the city.
    If 8ball and BigCat would like to change that, maybe you guys should petition the state to turn a few apex predators loose in your neighborhoods! At the same time, you will be reminded that if you shoot them for ANY reason you will be subject to extensive fines and imprisonment.

    When you are done researching the validity of their "endangered" status, you will find they are not, and don't need protections.
    The ESA was written to prevent a given species from becoming extinct. With gray wolf numbers in places like ID, MT, the great lakes states and various provinces in Canada, they are far from endangered or threatened.

    I am astounded at the naivete of the Disney indoctrinated visitors to a hunting forum.
     
  20. Scott

    Scott Battle Ground Well-Known Member

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    I am not from here but have been here 10 years. I go back every to WI to hunt were I am from. There are large numbers of grey wolves. According to a on going 10 research there are over 700 wolves in the state. The study shows wolves killed 9 -12000 deer. Sounds like a lot but hunters last year harvested 394,000 deer plus over 4000 were killed by autos and that does not count the deer killed by bears which is small and coyotes plus bobcats. It shows that there has to be less than 3 deer per square mile for them to make an impact on the herds.

    I happen to like wolves and believe they are part of American heritage and I am glad they are somewhat coming back. But there will be all the people that will just shoot them because they see them and that is sad. The government gives reimbursemtn for lost stock. But many animals die of disease, weather, snow, cold, starvation, sickness and many other reasons.

    Just an opinion and I hope they come back because America would look a lot different w/o wolves.

    Scott