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Will the "old" trusts still work after the June 2014 new trust rules?

Discussion in 'NFA Weapon Discussion' started by Doc In UPlace, Jan 9, 2014.

  1. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    Assuming you have a valid trust already (with at least one approval) I am wondering if the new trust rules requiring LEO signoff and photo/fingerprints will apply retroactively, nullifying the original trust, or if this new criteria will apply only to new trusts created after the rule is adopted (assuming it will be adopted)?

    Any ideas on how they plan to implement this?
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2014
  2. drew

    drew OR Well-Known Member

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    I thought it would only apply to items acquired after the proposed rules are adopted.

    I'm still curious how this will work if adopted. The only time everyone on a trust would have a background check is when applying for new stamps unless I'm missing something. Of course, a trust can change the responsible parties easily.
     
  3. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    After the rule is adopted all members of the Trust must be fingerprinted, submit photo and LEO signoff.

    Perhaps posting the entire proposed rule will help.

     
  4. drew

    drew OR Well-Known Member

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    Unless they change 479.63 to apply to entities that previously applied this wouldn't apply to existing trusts. The language still uses applicant so it would only apply to an existing application. It seemed pretty consistent that it would only apply to transfers. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if they adopted a rule that is different and ignores the financial impact they submitted.
     
  5. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    I see where you're going with this and that makes sense.

    On the other hand each new transfer requires an application so logically each one is submitted by an applicant. If/when I pick up my Spectre this month I'll yak with the dealer rep about this and get back to the thread with what their expectation is.

    But there is this small bonus:
    Now that I'm reviewing the proposed rule it looks like they don't deal with the issue of established trusts at all, other than as above.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
  6. PDXSparky

    PDXSparky Keizer / Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    That just means I'll have to submit a new form 1 or form 4 every other year.
     
  7. spectra

    spectra The Couve Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

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    I was thinking the same thing:thumbup: Just add to the collection every year to keep the files up to date...
     
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  8. PDXSparky

    PDXSparky Keizer / Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, but it's going to get expensive for us if we buy a new toy every year.
     
  9. spectra

    spectra The Couve Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

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    Not as bad as what my wife spends on clothes:laugh: Have you seen the price on designer jeans:wow: You can almost get a stamp for that........
     
  10. jekbrown

    jekbrown vancouver, WA, USA, Earth, Sol, Milky Way Active Member

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    Who says the new rule is being implemented in June of 2014? I thought that once the comment period ended and the atf had responded to said comments they could change the rule at any time they chose. I wasn't aware there was a deadline...
     
  11. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    Word was that the BATFE estimated it'll take to summer to review and answer the 8,000 non-rejected comments.
     
  12. jekbrown

    jekbrown vancouver, WA, USA, Earth, Sol, Milky Way Active Member

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    Gotcha. The crappy part for me is that I have a trust but I have to wait until June to apply to get an SBR...so yes, barring some kind of miracle or temporary insanity at atf, i'm screwed. I could apply to get a suppressor but it wouldn't be approved before June either most likely.
     
  13. SCARed

    SCARed Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Assuming your in WA by your comment, you don't need to wait until June to file. Since everything needs to be filed by mail currently, Send it in now. It will take them 6mos if not more before they even look at your file.
     
  14. usagi

    usagi Redmond Well-Known Member

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    the word was summer of *2015*. there is ONE person working the reviews and writing the responses. and then who knows how long after that before any changes go into effect. it's not like the instant the batfe finishes responding that the proposed rule changes are immediately enabled.
     
  15. jekbrown

    jekbrown vancouver, WA, USA, Earth, Sol, Milky Way Active Member

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    If true, that's awesome news. I'd have all the NFA stuff I want by then. The question is: how reliable is that information. Source?
     
  16. usagi

    usagi Redmond Well-Known Member

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  17. PDXSparky

    PDXSparky Keizer / Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    "All the NFA stuff I want"....ha ha ha ha.....
     
  18. jekbrown

    jekbrown vancouver, WA, USA, Earth, Sol, Milky Way Active Member

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    Heh heh. At least until wa legalizes SBS. I always want more guns... but two SBRs is about all I'll be able to do for quite awhile. I just bought a tavor, and an eotech for it. That alone is gonna slay the gun budget for awhile!
     
  19. best defense

    best defense Beaverton, OR Active Member

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    Yeah, I applied last November. Apparently there were lots of applications at about the same time, so I will probably be lucky if my application sees the light of day before the end of the year.

    I was wondering if there is any information about whether an electronic application goes any faster than a paper application?
     
  20. jekbrown

    jekbrown vancouver, WA, USA, Earth, Sol, Milky Way Active Member

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    The problem, as others have pointed out to me, is that at the bottom of the form 1 you sign/date/swear/affirm, under penalty of purjury, that what you are applying to make is legal under state law. If you apply on may 1st, and sign/date 5/1/14, you could be charged with purjury, because making an SBR prior to 6/12/14 certainly is illegal under state law, and anyone following the issue knows that.

    So yeah, you could apply now... and maybe the atf doesn't worry about the effective date because it's already past by the time they read the app. On the other hand, maybe they decided to ruin your life and stomp your cat to death.

    Go for it if you want to, but I carry a gun for a living and if I get a fed charge for some shenanigans like this I will lose my job. Not exactly worth it when I can just wait 2 months and have no chance of getting in trouble. YMMV.
     
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