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Will "Pro Gun Liberals" stand up and vote in 2014 against Gun Control

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by DMax, Mar 5, 2013.

  1. DMax

    DMax Yamhill Well-Known Member

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  2. Bob D

    Bob D Oregon, Cascades Well-Known Member

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    I think the Republican issue will be in their primary elections. They tend to select candidates that have less-than-zero appeal to even the most moderate of liberal-minded voters. Unfortunately, I doubt very much that even with every gun-owning liberal shifting away from the Democratic party, we can stop them from winning the house in 2014. Barring something terrible, that is. I don't think the Republicans know how to appeal to anyone but their base.
     
  3. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    Even that is questionable.
     
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  4. DireWolf

    DireWolf Oregon Active Member

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    Agreed.

    Support for Akin and Mourdock prove that out.
     
  5. DMax

    DMax Yamhill Well-Known Member

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    WOW Clearly missing the entire point Yet the only political group protecting eveyone from gun control are the very people you attack and defend the assclowns that take our liberty everyday. In the end it won't make any difference cause tyranny has no party.
     
  6. RoneKiln

    RoneKiln Western Washington Active Member

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    I can attack the Republicans without defending the Democrats. The Republicans have failed on multiple levels. The democrats attempts to infringe on our 2A rights is at the moment one of the only thing keeping the Republicans in the game. Cause we're rightfully grateful they're standing up for our 2A rights. That gratitude doesn't change that they've severely alienated a massive portion of the population. Even most of the population that is still standing by them is doing so out of a sense of standing up for the lesser of two evils, and not truly supporting them. Even their last presidential candidate had a very poor 2A rights record and I don't have any faith that he wouldn't be pushing the same anti2A agenda Obama is. I think he'd just cave in and give up more quickly.
     
  7. Bob D

    Bob D Oregon, Cascades Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what you're talking about. I clearly was neither attacking nor defending anyone.

    The attitude that interprets my paragraph above as an attack on Republicans and a defense of Democrats is the same "If they aren't for us, they're against us" mentality that's causing the Republican party to lose power.
     
  8. DireWolf

    DireWolf Oregon Active Member

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    No.

    You missed it.

    Republicans put up nimrods in races where they very clearly should have won, turning off their own base.

    Run fewer idiots, win elections, and the concern for recruiting Democrats to support a single issue cause becomes moot.

    I'm not registered with either party, because they are both selling me a load of crap.

    Opining about the defenders of liberty losing control of Congress when they are the same party that brought us the Partiot Act and a host of other right infringing big government policies is like insisting that a tabby cat can guard a mouse better than a black cat.
     
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  9. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The GOP is lost. They wheel out the most liberal RINOs they can find (Mitt Romney??? Seriously???), turning off the conservative base and not picking up many (if any) democrat voters.

    Something's gotta give or we'll have a one party system.

    BTW I'm a republican (well, more like a libertarian, but registered repub.). I'm not attacking them, just telling the sad truth.
     
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  10. Bob D

    Bob D Oregon, Cascades Well-Known Member

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    Pro-gun liberals will never vote conservative on gun rights or any other issue while the right can't even listen to moderate conservative opinions without blood boiling and cries of treason.

    We gun rights folks need to stop cutting off our face to spite our nose here. Unless we can do the impossible, and get the left to stop their slow but constant slide toward restricting legislation, then we're going to have to reverse the alienation of moderate conservatives.
     
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  11. kumabear17

    kumabear17 Issaquah Active Member

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    I would think a “pro-gun Liberal” must be as “rare as hen’s teeth”. I’m sure there may be a Liberal who owns a gun and lots of Democrats who do too, but a “pro-gun Liberal” is kind of an oxymoron label to me. How can a Liberal – not meaning all Democrats – be pro-gun when by their own definition (as I understand it) the majority believe statements such as “the Constitution has outlived its usefulness”, “it’s a living document that should be interpreted (by them) to meet current times”, and “we need to pass legislation limiting the 2nd Amendment”,etc. I don’t see Liberals as ever changing sides or even true Democrats. They believe in such different views on some social issues with the Republican Party it would seem heresy for them to cross over. Now I do believe there are many pro-gun Independents and Libertarians who could be swayed to support Republican candidates if the Party can better learn how to communicate it’s position and then not cave or compromise their ideals.
     
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  12. CharonPDX

    CharonPDX Portland, OR Active Member

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    See The Liberal Gun Club. Portland-area members have active regular meetings, and last year's national convention was held in Portland! Many members are so liberal, they think the Democratic Party is too conservative. A couple outright identify as "Socialist". Most consider gun rights to be a "liberal" cause - and think that people who oppose gun rights have no business calling themselves liberal.

    There are plenty of pro-gun liberals, and pro-gun Democrats (see the Democratic Party of Oregon's Gun Owners Caucus, the second-largest caucus behind only the GLBT caucus.) The problem is that for many of them, the 95% of issues they agree with the anti-gun Democrats on outweigh the 5% they don't.

    If you had an election where your choice was an anti-gun Republican or a pro-gun-but-ultra-socialist-liberal-on-everything-else Democrat, would you vote for the Democrat based solely on gun rights?

    But right now, many are being mobilized. Many are actively working to either convince the "on the fence" Democrats, or to find replacements for them in the next primary cycle.

    I believe in legal abortion, marriage equality, marijuana legalization, and zero restrictions on gun rights. To me, they all belong together as liberal values, none are contradictions. Those who DON'T believe in all of them, I see as being hypocritical. They are all matters of freedom.
     
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  13. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    The Bill of Rights has always been a Liberal document. I was in law school when Nixon resigned. The Bill of Rights was at that point under fire from Republicans. It was Conservatives who gave us the Patriot Act and handed Obama a great deal of the power he now wields through it. It should not matter whether you are Conservative or Liberal. The 2nd Amendment is part of a document that protects and defines all of our basic rights as citizens. We should all be on the same side in the face of an abusive and power drunk government.
     
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  14. CharonPDX

    CharonPDX Portland, OR Active Member

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    And, P.S. Many of the most liberal in the Democratic Party are turning against Obama on his recent executive power stances, too. (Just as many of the most fiscal conservative Republicans turned against Bush when he drove up the debt.)
     
  15. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    The term, "Liberal" was co-opted by the Progressive movement to camaflage it's rotten elitist core, and was twisted it into a caricature of its former self. The GOP is rife with Progressives as well.
     
  16. mosinguy1

    mosinguy1 out by the ocean Active Member

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    Both parties are so screwed up I dont trust either one. There are so many examples of members of each party swaying back and forth that even they dont know who for sure will stay on thier, republican or democrat, side. I feel they all see it as money talks, whoever promises the most wins!!!! Not what we want or care about, only thier own pockets. Yet they spew the BS to thier people to get elected, then do what they were payed to do, not what they were elected to do!!!!!!!!!
     
  17. mancat

    mancat Kitsap County Well-Known Member

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    you know what? some of you democrat voters can put your party on the back burner for a season or two to teach them a lesson. you don't have to find a way to rationalize your favorite candidate's lack of support for 2A rights. simply tell them that you are a registered dem, a potential voter or a past voter, but that you will NOT support them if they choose to attack your 2A rights. if they do, follow through. suck it up and vote for someone else.
     
  18. kumabear17

    kumabear17 Issaquah Active Member

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    Seems to me that some of this discussion at least is getting hung up on labels and semantics. You actually think you can show me a “pro-gun-but-ultra-socialist-liberal-on-everything-else Democrat” ? I realize we have anti-gun Republicans which we usually label as “RINO's”. At this stage of my life I really don’t trust what Politicians on either side say. If the choice was what you offered, I guess I would go with the Party which had the lesser impact on the lies they had told me in the past. Do you have any suggestions on who I should consider? And I am still having a hard time believing there is such a animal as a pro-gun/socialist. Guess I just never met any on the north side of the river.
     
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  19. Bob D

    Bob D Oregon, Cascades Well-Known Member

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    I support this view. The problem is, and I know a lot of people who are in this group, that there are many people who have just as much ideological belief on other issues such as immigration, reproductive rights, marriage equality, social programs, etc. Who are those people to vote for? I can't bring myself to vote for any candidate who is trying to take firearms from citizens, but I also can't bring myself to vote for anyone who believes that the morning-after pill is morally wrong. Who am I to vote for? I also believe in a small government, which neither major party aligns with regardless of what they say, yet I believe that there are some families in our society that the government should step in to help. I believe that religious worship should be protected in our schools and public places, yet I also believe that we should be doing more to be better stewards of our planet. I have no candidate to vote for. I am neither liberal nor conservative, yet both sides treat me as an enemy rather than as a potential ally. I am the vote that the social values movement lost for the republican party, and I am the vote that the socialist values movement lost for the democratic party. Which values will I choose as most important? Or will I continue to choose neither? I'm not yet so worried about any issue that I am willing to vote with a party that vilifies me. I am the center. The party that meets me in the middle will win. The Republicans, sadly, are losing that battle at present. They do not have to continue to do so.

    And now come the condemnations, attacks, and accusations. I am not your enemy.
     
  20. mancat

    mancat Kitsap County Well-Known Member

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    ^ which is why the GOP is a failure as of right now. Ideally the GOP should be the party that should not care about legislating against such things. Instead they have been turned into the "Christian values" party. The GOP would win a lot more crossover votes if they would keep their platform about fiscal responsibility and personal freedoms. Unfortunately that's long out the window. A lot of their former voter base tried to push for the GOP to adopt the libertarian stance last election. They pushed back hard on that and nominated one of the biggest flops in the GOP's history other than maybe Palin.

    P.S. I'm not registered with either party, but my stance on 2A issues is that once we allow them to slip away, we may NEVER get them back. SO I will vote accordingly. Reproductive rights, marriage rights, etc. are things that are here now and are very unlikely to ever go away. Voting for a republican is unlikely to turn that tide.
     
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