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Discussion in 'Handgun Discussion' started by Camtender, Oct 30, 2009.
Wow, that's good information. I would have thought the 40SW would have done a lot more damage. Scary that he could have had that many wounds and still fire back. I cant beleive the criminal was reloading his gun from a box of ammo, that's insane. Shot placement is definitely the deciding factor on how fast someone will fall. I'm surprised they dint take out their shotguns, being only twenty feet away.
Good post Camtender
seems like the "lessons learned" slide doesn't agree with you.
shot placement is more important than caliber, if he had been shot in the head it wouldn't matter if it had been a .380 or a .30-06, it would have stopped the fight.
yea i'm pretty sure that "use a higher velocity cartridge" wasn't on that slide.
that being said, I do like the 10mm>40 short and weak
Shot placement is key, however with poor shot placement i would take a 10mm over a 40 any day. A couple of badly placed 10mm rounds would have stopped his *** quicker than a couple badly placed 40 cal rounds
However, if you go back and look at the Norma 10mm balistics from the FBI during the .45 vs. 10mm days, you will see the what a difference the 10mm vs. the-soon-to-be .40 is today.
There is a lot of misinformation about the 10mm and the FBI 1076, here is a post from a retired FBI SA
"As you know the FBI's ultimate decision to return all its 1076s to S&W under warranty had everything to do with turf battles, egos and politics and very little to do with the pistol's or ammunition's performance. Further, over the two to three year period that the FBI and S&W haggled over the 1076 the .40 S&W had been developed. The FBI saw a way to extricate itself from the S&W entanglement and go with the .40 which had similar ballistics. Ironically, it so happened that the FBI selected Glock to provide the .40s. It also happened that Glock (and firearms manufacturers) had sued the FBI when the original contract had been awarded to S&W.
It would be very difficult to find a street Agent in the FBI that was issued a 1076 that did not like it. most did not want to give them up. And some took extreme measures to hold onto theirs. Many Agents bought multiple 1076s from S&W as used guns when the FBI returned them to S&W."
It is all shot placement and circumstance. I have seen guys take several high caliber rounds to the body an still make it to cover. I have seen guys that took on small caliber round and died within seconds.
There are other factors besides shot placement. The shot has to get to the target to count. A covered target is more apt to be hit with a more powerfull round. I doubt people will stand in the open and let you shoot at them. 10MM has pretty good penetration.
Right tool for the job is the question?
I guess I missed the part where anyone was shot by a 10MM.
Did I miss the 10MM shooting part?
As much lead as that guy had in him a doubt 10mm would have provided a "one shot stop" either.
Sounds like the vaunted Hollow Point in .40 cal. isn't worth much. Doubt if there is anything wrong with alot deeper hole made with a FN bullet: forget expansion.
This certainly does present some interesting information.. It also presents a lot of questions.. One thing stands out..at least to me.. Not one shot was in center of mass..which I'm sure would have made it a lot shorter story.. Poorly placed rounds give poor results..
Imagine if the cops had been using 9mm's.. the guy would probably still be loading mags..
When the 40 S$W came out they called it the 40 Short and Weak. LOL LOL
And some people call 1911's antiquated. It just goes to show some people like to talk a lot without any real knowledge of the subject they are addressing.
There is knowledge and there is exspearience. There is probably alot of knowledge around here but little real exspearience. While the subject is serious I doubt many here could talk from exspearience (including myself). However I would like to hear about yours.
Someone pass the popcorn please:laugh:
I have used 10 mm since the late 80's when it "was" the hottest thing you could get in a semi auto! The .40 s/w is just a lower pressure shorted version of 10 mm!
Looks to me it was the .40 that did the real work and not the 5.56! No real surprise there, in the service, we had many and I mean MANY bad guys hit with 5.56 that kept on truckin. The switch to M855 made a questionable platform in to a down right useless platform over in the sand box! It would consistently "ICE PICK' on all shots and required a good bone hit to stop, or at least lesson the threat! Its bad when you have to put a full mag into a guy to stop him! Luckily I never had to do that my self! 9 mm pistol worked out OK most of the time it was used ( rarely for us) that the service dragged it's feet many years before going back to...........................you guessed it, M1911's
I carry a full sized double stack 16+1 10 mm 1911! Never bring a mouse gun to a real gunfight! LOL
in that presentation...it sounded like the LEO's were surprised that the 5.56 went all the way through. LOL...that's what they do, it's a high velocity round with a small projectile.