Why the contempt for 2nd Tier firearms?

[JeremyK]

Tanqueray guy myself
I like the taste of choking on pine needles really reminds me of home

The last time I did Gin it was mixed with Arizona green tea... it made me regret the day my parents met...

 

[orygun]

Providing an opinion on the technical merits of a gun is much different than insulting a person with a comment like: "'Go be poor somewhere else."

The first is comment on the gun itself, the second is a personal attack on a person. The first comment is useful (if rooted in experience), the second comment is worthless and divisive.




Don't hold back so long as it is a comment like "I had one and every third magazine it would jam, tried X, Y, and Z, to fix it and eventually sold it."

If the comment is like "only a moron would buy that POS" -- then yeah, probably best to just think it and let it go.

I think this is a great guideline for making comments in general. Unfortunately some people don't care and some, well, they just don't have a filter.
Often times my gut reaction is pretty harsh and rude, but I can turn it around between my gut, brain and fingers so by the time it hits the screen it's watered down and usually positive in some manner.
Guns are but one part of my life that expenses can quickly get out of hand. I've owned some pretty nice firearms, but they always came at an expense, meaning something had to go to generate funds (heck, I even borrowed from the Credit Union once!). I've also owned and loved some "cheap" guns. The two guns handed down from Grandpa were inexpensive when he bought them new and I grew up realizing I wasn't shooting a Winchester and a Colt, but I had reliable guns (Ruger and Marlin, by the way. In the 50's they were budget guns).
If "we" get into a conversation I may surely trash talk your gun, car/truck, tools etc., heck maybe even your dog, but never your ability to afford any items. That's just bad form and honestly, pretty F-in rude.

As far as commenting on a firearm, unless I've shot it, or at least handled it, I'm not in much of a position to comment on anything besides looks.

But you won't catch me owning another Kimber, unless it was made in Clackamas.

 

[revjen45]

As a degreed professional gunsmith there are times I feel a twinge of snobbery, but I can usually beat it back. I realize that what I want and why isn't the same as the lady I student taught for my instructor cert. I think Hi-Points are ugly and I probably wouldn't choose to own one. I also note that when the subject of that marque comes up the only people who stick up for it are owners of one. I also realize that the lady I mentioned wouldn't buy a Combloc officer's pistol just to have one of those. It's easy to succumb to gun lust.

 

[OldBroad44]

A great guitar player can make any guitar sound phenomenal. I don't need a $3000 guitar to sound like Clapton, I need to practice. Same with pistols, rifles, and shotgun, IMHO.

A great guitar player can make a merely adequate guitar sound pretty good. But not great. And there are guitars that are so inferior that you don't want to be in the same room with them, whoever is playing. But i have a used knockoff of a Martin that is about 80 % as good as a real martin. It sounds great and cost me only $100. In
my more naive and trusting days, I bought a Jennings that never fired a full mag without a jam. However, a gun doesn't have to be top of the line to basically do the job. Sometimes when a relative novice is asking about a low end gun, and we know it has problems, we can help just by telling them about it. But it would also be helpful, where we can, to suggest something better that is in his price range.

 

[Pandaz3]

I have a lot of brands, Armalite, Browning, Colt, Daniels Defense, EAA, FMK, Glock, Henry, IAC, Inland, Kel-Tec, Lionheart, NAA, Remington, Rock Island Armory, Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Springfield Armory, Taurus, Walther, Winchester. Probably missed one or two.

No one really questions a Colt or Winchester, not that they are all that good or all that bad, they are just pretty much judged as 'acceptable'. I certainly like all mine.

Most of mine would sit in your own inventory just fine. There are some that draw instant criticism most often. IAC as cheap Chinese import which is true of my Hawk 982, but I have cycled it 3,000 times or better (I did not stutter) and I have a adjustable ATI stock on it for the wife. It works and she doesn't want another (She does not like shotguns) that explanation usually draws a pass.

If I mention Kel-Tec there is a lot of grumbling, usually someone will say a friend had one once or similar, THEY never owned one, They have no real experience with it. Some will say they have... not many. Mine is a PMR-30 anyone else got a thirty round pure hand gun? Not a AR or AK or other carbine derivative pistol?

Taurus is most frequently attacked. All I can say is I don't care. My PT-111 G2 9MM suits me as does my 605 357 Magnum snubby. I have not tried my recently purchased Spectrum 380 yet but it passes my dry fire muster.

I have a couple of guns I do not like that much, but I trust them or they would go to a "Buy back" program. I would not keep a untrustworthy gun.

We go to forums for a honest assessment of this or that, not just a guess based on a brand name.

 

[Stomper]

The last time I did Gin it was mixed with Arizona green tea... it made me regret the day my parents met...

Well, that makes 7,000,000,000 of us!

 

[JeremyK]

Well, that makes 7,000,000,000 of us!

I hate you so much right now.

 

[OldBroad44]

View attachment 450152 Look at the metal/wood fit of this 100 year old combination gun made in Ferlach Austria. This is quality and it shoots well too.

It's gorgeous. A work of art. But I wouldn't feel comfortable actually taking it out and shooting it. To get a scratch on it would be almost a mortal sin.

 

[Argonaut]

It's gorgeous. A work of art. But I wouldn't feel comfortable actually taking it out and shooting it. To get a scratch on it would be almost a mortal sin.

That would be like being afraid to wear your best, most beautiful dress.......it isn't designed to leave in the closet.

 

[Ura-Ki]

That would be like being afraid to wear your best, most beautiful dress.......it isn't designed to leave in the closet.

Exactly right! I own an automobile like that, it's so rare, there was only ever ONE made, it's worthless to me if I can't take it out and enjoy if as it was meant to be, and that's the whole point!

 

[Argonaut]

Exactly right! I own an automobile like that, it's so rare, there was only ever ONE made, it's worthless to me if I can't take it out and enjoy if as it was meant to be, and that's the whole point!

I have cars and cameras like that too. Decided at a very young age that a Maserati or Hassleblad is useless without being applied to the use they were designed for. I floated the north fork of the Clearwater river in canoes to do an article for Boy's Life Magazine before it was damed by Dworshak with my new Hasselblad camera in about 1969. Everyone thought I was crazy until they saw the photos. The problem is I have lived enough years to have accumulated many fine things and it is difficult to exercise them all.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Many of these antiques still get shot...and all get displayed and handled quite a bit.
Which will add to the wear and tear of the gun...but...
How often do you get a chance to handle or shoot a rifle from 17 or 18 whatever...?

Plus with a close look and handing , you can really appreciate the workmanship that went into the gun and can understand that to be a gunsmith , is to be a artist...
Andy

 

[nwwoodsman]

The only firearm in my cabinet worth even $500 is one I found for $300 in a pawn shop.My family comes before my hobbies. I have a wife and 3 kids to feed and I'm certainly not rich. At this stage in life buying a $1,500 rifle for my collection is not be something to be proud of, but putting shoes on my kids feet is.

 

[MrRob96]

I very rarely experience gun snobbery on here as described by the OP. I don't think I've seen someone called a peasant for having a budget or otherwise.

What I do see regularly are people with low budgets, looking at bargain firearms, being encouraged to save a few more dollars to buy something of higher quality.

I'm not conflating price with quality. I know quality doesn't always require you pay the wages of a Swiss worker rather than a Czech. Yet a lot of grumbling happens when a person comes in with an extremely limited budget and people with experience rightfully try to steer the person to something that is higher quality because it will be more reliable, longer lived, and reward the purchaser 10x over the look alike that breaks in 5 years.

For the vast majority of us here, money has been tight at some point. And what is often learned in that situation is that you should always buy quality or else the little money you do have could be wasted.

Now in the case of referring to someone literally calling another person inferior because they can't afford an HK P7M13 for a carry pistol, that's just elitist AF. Point them out and I would wager that person isn't a very popular member here.

 

[rcnpthfndr]

i saw this in the long range world as it was becoming "cool". it was really bad there for a while if you weren't rocking a GAP with a S&B, Hensoldt, Premier, etc etc when you showed up at a match. sadly even outfitters are getting this way.

The Snobbiness is so off putting and counter productive to a new shooter. I would hazard a guess that a lot of new shooters either lose heart or try and learn for themselves when they encounter this . in the long run it which usually leads to more frustration.

I do get twitchy when I read the posts about " What scope for shooting to 1500yds i have a $300 budget". Man that makes me all itchy, anxiety and panic attacks and have the strange desire to sit in a port a potty at noon during the summer in Iraq while drinking a case of ripits.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Snobbishness can take place in all shooting forms...
I have been accused of being a "Rifle Snob" or Elitist when turning a new black powder shooter away from a cheaply made rifle ...notice I said cheaply made , not inexpensive....
There is a world of difference between cheaply made and inexpensive.

Cheaply made , to me , means poor quality of parts and level of assembly , possibly even unsafe parts or assembly...
Inexpensive , just means good value for the purpose of the item and money spent...
Nothing "wrong" with inexpensive.

To show contempt for others and their choices , can reflect poorly on you....A helpful , guiding comment , may make a life long shooter.... a snide comment , may make a life long gun hater...
Andy

 

[PiratePast40]

There are some forums that are rougher than others. Since there has been a significant effort to keep this one civil, I think we see better explanations of opinions here than other places. That leads to people being more civil to each other.

There are other forums that allow harsher language and explore more political viewpoints. Sometime people forget which sub forum they're on and keep up the attacks.

 

[Aero Denezol]

I haven't seen much gun snobbery here on NWFA, but I have seen it once or twice at the range. There was one (1) guy many years ago who was a king-sized a*hole, used to walk the line at ARPC inspecting everyone's gear and snickering the whole time. I haven't seen him in a while, hopefully he went to Iraq to look for land mines.

I don't buy the cheapest stuff but I don't buy the most expensive either. I try and stick to middle-tier products my family could resell in a pinch, if something happened to me.

On a real windy day I don't think it matters that much how much you spent/didn't spend on your gun. A good shooter will squeeze the maximum performance out of his weapons with the conditions and the ammo he has. IMO most guys are nowhere near this good. I know one thing, we don't shoot inside a laboratory.

 

[ron]

Opinions are like A-holes everybody has one. If I am considering brand A or B
please give me your actual experience with said brand or model. Not what you
heard or read somewhere. I see guns at the my club that are interesting or
'what the heck is that thing'. Talk to owners and get there feedback and opinions.
What jams me up is some people on this forum will give advice and tell you they
really have no experience with it. One particular thread comes to mind. It was
about reloading 77 SMK in a 223 to magazine length. Reloaders giving opinions
but then state they have never actually reloaded the 77 SMK. Statements made
were flat wrong. A lot of diverse experienced people here that can be a wealth
of information to us all. But please if you have no experience with it don't blab
on like a expert. Everybody likes a good deal me included. I have gone the cheap
route and it worked fine. Other times not. I bought some less exspensive Burris
scopes. Now I have replaced them with Leupolds.

 

[Capn Jack]

That's just idiotic I don't care if you can only afford a $50 dollar Raven .25 caliber pistol your still part of the club AND BELIEVE ME WE NEED AS MANY PEOPLE IN THE CLUB AS WE CAN GET .and if your not a A$$ you might have .a chance that a group of guys and girls will give you a AR15 .

Quit picking on my Raven.........I call it my, "Pimp's Special".