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Why so much hate on the Beretta 92fs/M9?

Discussion in 'Handgun Discussion' started by JimmyS1985, Dec 17, 2011.

  1. JimmyS1985

    JimmyS1985 St.Louis Active Member

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    I went to a bar about a year ago, and he was a marine sniper. I asked if he had any confirmed kills and he said veterans don't talk about that sort of stuff. Fair enough, I wouldn't get any thrill out of killing a person.

    But the one thing he did talk bubblegum on was the flimsy sidearm he was given by the military. Apparently it wasn't to his liking and subpar for what he wish the marines had issued him.

    I can understand the hate on the 9mm, it just doesnt perform as well as the .45 ACP, but it SHOULD make up for that in the amount of bullets (rounds) in the magazine. You can double tap and triple tap all day long and still have some left with a Beretta M9 magazine than you can with a standard 1911 magazine.

    As someone who enjoys talking about my favorite hobby, handguns, I went to a fraternity party. I mentioned to a police officer at the party, making sure no fights break out, that I owned a Beretta M9. He immediately told me that gun was TRASH. He said the 9mm round was incapable of taking down a "suspect" in a short enough amount of time, almost as if he could brush the penetration of 9mm bullets off and continue being a threat.

    I told him, I bought it because 9mm rounds are relatively cheap, and I could afford to shoot it (outside of the $18 an hour booth rental fees at local indoor firing ranges) he did give me that, but his glock .40 cal (I think it was a glock 23) he got free ammunition for from his police department, so it was a non-issue.

    As far as I can tell, soldiers and policemen hate my firearm. Either because of the weapon or the round it shoots. The only points I got from talking to the police officer was the fact that I had LG402 handgrips and the laser dot could make a suspect bubblegum his pants when he saw it on his chest. Other than that, it was incapable of performing up to par for their tastes.

    So I ask fellow gun enthusiasts, why so much hate on 9mm hand guns, and the Beretta M9? I don't understand it, because I would be pretty damn scared if I was up against a 9mm handgun when facing "The Elephant"
     
  2. Eric911

    Eric911 WA Member

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    Much of the poor reputation the 9mm has is based on the lackluster performance of FMJ/ball ammo. I don't claim to have the vast knowledge of some folks, however, I have participated in some fairly extensive ballistic testing. Current high quality JHP rounds in .45, .40 and 9mm perform similar in calibrated ballistic gelatin. For the most part, mil is limited to 124 ball in 9mm. A few LE agencies have abandoned the .40 and returned to the 9mm.

    The Beretta 92FS/M9 is a solid and reliable design. It works fairly well for it's intended purpose, as a full size mil/LE pistol in a duty holster. I have carried a .40 cal and 9mm version in the past and would take the 9mm over the .40, based on reliability issues with the .40. There are a few negatives, however. The 92FS/M9 is large and thick, not the best choice where concealment is critical. Some mil M9s did experience slide cracks after a high number of 9mm NATO spec rounds were fired.

    While I am a .45 fan, I am currently carrying a 9mm as I type this, and I don't feel under-armed.
     
  3. Beefcake

    Beefcake Portland Active Member

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    There is probably about a thread per week arguing the performance shortcomings of the 9mm, so I'll skip that question. I haven't fired a 92 in about 15 years, so I'm sure you can get more knowledgable feedback, but most of the negative comments I've heard about the Beretta pistols is that their controls aren't intuitive to users of other brands. A friend of mine just went through federal gov't training on this platform and had this exact complaint. I'm sure military guys that have had proper instruction and practice with them are very proficient, but the main complaint I've heard about them is the complexity of the safety / decocker controls (it almost seems like it rotates the opposite direction of other guns I've used?). Anyway, I like simplicity in a handgun. Other than target shooting, handguns are for use in stressful situations, and I don't want to question whether or not they will make noise when I pull the trigger. I learned on revolvers, so I don't even like manual safeties on auto handguns. I also love the look and feel of 1911s but don't own one for this reason.
     
  4. DinhRose

    DinhRose Austin, Texas (Ex-Pat of SE PDX) Active Member

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    The 92/m9 got hated on due to the issues with the matted magazines and sand messing them up. The safety is counter initiative in someway but if your life depended on your side arm then you should really know its operation. I personally like it quite a bit because of the alloy frame and smooth trigger. I love my glock for other reasons as well. Same with my 1911. If you're a soldier you better get used to what you're given. Complaining and resisting newer firearms are not in you're best interest and I ne'er understood why people get snobby about switching from the 1911 to the m9. Think of it this way. What happens if your primary and side arms are out? Will you not pick up another weapon out of spite?
     
  5. Eric911

    Eric911 WA Member

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    The factory mags are substantially better than the mil issued Checkmate mags. Beretta also came out with a sand resistant mag.
     
  6. HenryJ

    HenryJ Eastern Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I sure like my 92FS. It fits me well.
     
  7. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    In my Army days I was always issued the 1911A1 for line duty and LOVE the .45ACP, but I have an Italian made 92F that I picked up while stationed in Germany during '86-'88, and still have it. I've carried it as a CCW while in the European theater guarding the USAREUR CINC when he was "out & about", and while a bit large for that purpose, I never had much issue doing it when I planned ahead for it. Although I now carrry a Glock-30 for my CCW, IMHO the 92F is a fine duty weapon, and I will never get rid of the one I've had for about 23 years now.
     
  8. Key-Hay

    Key-Hay North Carolina Active Member

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    Bought a M9 a few years ago when my daughter went in the Air Force. We shot it a few times but it shot horrible groupings. Thought it might be ammo but wasn't. Sold it and bought a XdM 9 with 3.8" barrel. It shoots rings around the M9. Was not sure why. Beretta makes nice stuff but was not impressed with the one I got.
     
  9. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor Oregon City, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I have had 3 and all have been very accurate. I love the Colt 1911 for its history but my M9 is my home defense gun and fun plinker pistol. I dont waste time on haters reasoning as most dont stand up to logic or the laws of physics...
     
  10. XSubSailor

    XSubSailor SW WA Active Member

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    Most people have a love/hate relationship with the 92FS. I have a well-used 92FS Centurion and here are my opinions:
    1. Mine is quite accurate. It is heavy as it is for a modern service pistol, and as expected, there is minimal recoil.
    2. The DA pull is very heavy and for me, the half-cock hammer position that you transition through on the DA pull is a huge distraction for me. I've lightened the pull on mine with a 92D mainspring.
    3. The SA pull is light and smooth, reset is short allowing quick and accurate follow-up shots.
    4. The front sight is integral with the slide and can't be replaced without machining the slide.
    5. The open slide design works great for nearly eliminating misfeeds and makes stovepipes nearly impossible; however, it's a huge entry point for dirt and grit and not well suited to duty in the desert.
    6. The slide-mounted safety is the deal-breaker for me as a carry pistol. It's very easy to accidentally flip the safety ON when clearing a malfunction or racking the slide with an over-the-top slide grip. If you pinch the slide between your thumb as forefinger, it's easier to avoid this happening. The safety is one of the most hated feature of the 92FS for those forced to carry it.
    7. The grips are thick and not well suited to those with smaller hands.
    8. It's a 9mm, and given other choices, who wouldn't want something more substantial when people are trying hard to kill you. Keep in mind that our military issue is not premium self-defense ammo, it is 124g FMJ ball ammo...if you're forced to use ball ammo by the Hague Convention (and we always follow the rules of warfare, even it the other guys don't) .45ACP makes more sense.

    It's a good pistol overall, but not the best for a service or military sidearm IMO.
     
  11. oasis618

    oasis618 Tacoma, Wa Active Member

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    I've never heard anyone "hate" on the Beretta 92.
     
    74sporty and (deleted member) like this.
  12. 74sporty

    74sporty metro portland Active Member

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    sounds more like a "hate" on 9mm then berretta's. i just picked up my first berretta m9 at the show this past weekend. i am impressed! very fancy take down, smart breach lock design, flawlessly machined, all the bells and wistles like sa da trigger, ambi safe/decocker, chamber indicator and awesome sites. the gun is classy and refined and its weight feels great in the hand. sorry to sound like a bmw commercial but i love this gun! the only changes i would make is replacing all the plastic parts like mag release button, trigger and a few others.
     
  13. Grommit327

    Grommit327 Buckley Active Member

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    The 92fs is a fine looking sidearm and feels great in my hand. That being said I have shot 3 now that have been jam-o-matics. I would never trust my life to one
     
  14. FourTeeFive

    FourTeeFive PNW Washington State Active Member

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    I had an Italian made 92 that I really like. I've had a number of friends use it and everybody seems to like shooting it, and even with the thick grips it seems to fit a lot of hands well. It does seem to have more problems with "limp wristing" than many guns. And, like most handguns, you have to keep it clean. I will say I don't like the feel of the newer 92's that have more plastic parts.

    As much as I don't care for Glocks (I mostly just don't like how the grip feels) they have set the bar much higher for people in terms of functional reliability. Perhaps that is why some people don't care for the 92. I think what you're experiencing you could find if asking for opinions about any gun. You know what they say about opinions...
     
  15. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Hey! Mine smell as good as a dozen roses!! ;)
     
  16. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    I never liked the design.. clunky, over sized, lousy 3 mile long trigger pull, etc. Spoiled by the BHP I guess
     
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  17. Boats

    Boats Flicking A Switch To Open My Third Eye Well-Known Member

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    It's about 0.5 inches longer than a SIG P226 with the same capacity. With flush fitting Mec-Gar 18 rounders, the 92FS is a pleasure to shoot and has currently state of the art capacity.

    As far as other mentions of the "backwards safety?" Anyone using the safety lever on a DA/SA pistol while it is chambered probably wears a belt and suspenders too. The Beretta's trigger disconnect safety is really only there for administrative handling and decocking onto a live round.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2011
  18. XSubSailor

    XSubSailor SW WA Active Member

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    I agree completely, but those issued the 92FS (at least in our military) are REQUIRED to keep the weapon on SAFE with (or without) a round chambered, and switch off the safety when the weapon is drawn...practicality be damned.
     
  19. sneakboxer

    sneakboxer NW OR Active Member

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    i carried a 92 at work and off for quite a few years. I did not like concealing it due to the weight and size but liked shooting it and it still is reliable. I was shooting informal steel in Michigan and you would have thought i was carrying a 25acp "Saturday night special" i took all kinds of hate for the 92. But the boys quieted down when i out shot them (or at least competed with them). I personally never had the safety come on, slide bite, or a broken locking block. I guess some of the hate stems from using ball ammo against bad guys but i don't have any experience there. (thankfully) Your 92 should serve you well and warm 124gr expanding ammo should get the job done if needed.
     
  20. duran21

    duran21 Lacey Active Member

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    1. open slide does not work with sand and mud.
    2. wierd safety.
    3. military has to us FMJ, so the 9mm wont do anything for you.
    4. I had one jam on the 2nd round...

    i cant trust this weapon to defend myself and my family...
    I know, with JHP it doesnt matter if you have 9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP, ect... the round will stop an attacker, but i dont trust the M9 or 9mm to do the job, and trust is just as important as real proformance. if you dont trust it, you wont hit the broad side of a barn at 10 yards. and after all it only the hits that count.