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Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by bbowl, May 9, 2015.

  1. bbowl

    bbowl Beaverton OR Active Member

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    SB941 - seems to me like the best thing to do is to flat out ignore.

    If EVERYONE did that it would really shut them down. Imagine how the people that pushed this thru would feel when they see that the people don't follow it and the police won't enforce it.
     
    chariot13 and U201491 like this.
  2. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Because jail
     
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  3. bbowl

    bbowl Beaverton OR Active Member

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    It's a minor misdemeanor, and I'm saying in areas that have been announced no enforcement. Would be neat to see a list of counties that have said that
     
  4. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    First time it's a misdemeanor and a $6,250 fine then ten years in prison the second time, or so I have read. Follow the law or help us get rid of it.
     
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  5. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Because as soon as something happens and you have to defend yourself with the gun you just bough,without the background check they will throw the book at you.
    They will try to show how you bought the gun this way to murder someone.
    Why else would you have cared about a check?
     
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  6. bbowl

    bbowl Beaverton OR Active Member

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    They same people that have announced they will not enforce??

    Ok, how about washington. It's been in effect for a while there. How many people have been "made examples of". My guess is none
     
    chariot13 likes this.
  7. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Most of my friends will not sell to anyone. There has been a lot of folks that are just keeping what they have now.
    Or doing transfers at the LGS.
    Not that they're making examples,but do you want to try them out? Just make sure you trade with folks you KNOW are stable.:rolleyes:
     
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  8. tiggers97

    tiggers97 United States Well-Known Member

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    Best option would be for the stores to not offer the service. The state cannot compel them to. No service, no 2nd amendment. No 2nd amendment = go to court for damages = strike down law as written.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2015
    Solved, spookshack and bbowl like this.
  9. bbowl

    bbowl Beaverton OR Active Member

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    that's a much better idea than just mass defiance. Still probably impossible to make work. All, or at least most FFLs would have to be on board.
     
  10. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    No.

    They would have to prove that I bought it after the BGC law went into effect.

    If it was a firearm that was bought by the seller before the BGC law went into effect, then they would have to find the seller and have the seller testify that they sold it after the law went into effect - which a seller who skirts the law would probably be reluctant to do since they would most likely be in more trouble than the buyer.

    Could they find the seller? Maybe, maybe not. If the seller had bought it from an FFL then sure, but if the seller had bought it from another private party, who had bought it from a private party, and so on, it would be difficult. I don't keep track of who I sell my firearms to most of the time - not over time - and I am sure that at least half the firearms I have sold have probably been in turn sold to someone else.

    Which gets to the crux of the issue; such laws, when they involve the serial # of the firearm, are more about firearm registration than about BGCs.

    And what purpose would a government entity have for registration?

    Confiscation is the only reason I can think of.

    Registration doesn't stop gun crime. You can't reliably trace a firearm used in a crime by the projectile - it is just too easy to change barrels on many guns without any record of purchasing the parts to do so since those parts are not considered a firearm themselves - even to the point of changing the caliber, and you would have to have a suspect to start with and/or have a projectile from the same firearm used in a different crime previously.

    You can't by the firing pin marks or the shell casings for the same reasons.

    Eventually you have to have a suspect and recover their firearm and hope that they were stupid enough to not use a different barrel/etc. during the crime. Plus, a person can just say their firearm was lost or stolen (only 11 states require such reports, OR & WA are not among those states).

    Plus, government entities simply do not care that much about solving crimes by these means. What they do care about is the balance of power between the citizens and the government itself. Eventually it will come around to firearm bans and then confiscation. Connecticut is already there and one could argue New York and California among others, are also.
     
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  11. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The state would/could offer the service themselves (they already do) and there would always be some retail outlet that would not be on board who would offer the service, so much the better if there were fewer FFLs who would because then they would get more business.

    As for ignoring the law - it has already been noted that there is a budget and plan to have the state police enforcing this law and that means there would probably be stings setup.

    No - not worth the risk.

    There are a few workarounds.

    For example, if you move to another state for even a few years, you can claim that you sold your firearms there. You can also buy firearms there privately without a record of the purchase. You could buy from an FFL and then claim you sold them there before coming back to Oregon - there being no law (like in Calif.) stating you have to declare your firearms when you come into the state.

    Certainly not workable for everyone, but for someone like me who will be retiring in a few years it is something to think about - including the fact that I would possibly still buy firearms here with a BGC and then "sell" them when I move out of state.

    It is all about plausible deniability. Which is why the anti-gunners want to spread such laws to other states to make such workarounds harder and fewer.
     
  12. antisocialist541

    antisocialist541 Eugene Active Member

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    Imagine the message sent to arrogant leaders if not one person complied, but we're all too scared. Disgusting. Is this our state or does it belong to the few who enact new laws (when a bill isn't passed on ballot)? Next will be a gun registration bill. Shame on any person who reads this post and registers their guns, God forbid that law comes our way. Once again, imagine the message sent if not one single person complies. And the first person tried to be made an example of is backed by all of us(financial or militia). This is what it will take folks, otherwise kiss your gun rights goodbye over the next 10-20 years here in OR. So sad what the law abiding people of this nation have become, afraid of their own government! A self destructing machine that nobody can stop.
     
  13. bbowl

    bbowl Beaverton OR Active Member

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    Would cost a lot of money to open "state transfer shops" all over the place. Wouldn't that ruin the no financial impact part?
     
  14. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    So you will risk jail and losing your firearms and not go through the BGC process if you sell or buy one of your firearms after the law goes into effect? Imagine all you want.

    Would I be afraid of being arrested and a trial and losing my firearms and prison?

    You bet. I am 60 years old. I have 5 years left to retirement. I have kids who depend on me. I have all the firearms I really need now. I am not going to risk my firearms I may need someday for self-defense. I am not going to risk losing my job, the cost of a trial and possibly going to prison to make a point - especially when I know that most other people won't risk it either and my "resistance" would therefore be futile.

    But you go right ahead and refuse. Tell you what; if you do, I will even donate $100 to your defense fund.
     
  15. 40calruler

    40calruler Lake Oswego Well-Known Member

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    So that leaves....oh yeah...nobody.

    Put up red ribbons as many of us are in your area. Show that we are not doing anything illegal but we are not standing still either. As mjbskwim said it is not worth finding out if you will be an example or not. As Just Jim said join the fight or get the HELL out of the way.
     
  16. antisocialist541

    antisocialist541 Eugene Active Member

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    Heretic, with folks like you the USA wouldn't be. Too afraid to disobey the laws of the Brittish, thankfully we had folks (founding fathers) who were willing to risk all they had for future generations. Think about "yourself" all you want. You prove my point, our country is in trouble and not getting fixed any time soon.
     
  17. 40calruler

    40calruler Lake Oswego Well-Known Member

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    And you are doing what to show you are better than he is? A loud mouth gets us nowhere. "speak softly and carry a big stick".
    Teddy helps me remember it is not all about yelling. More about gently nudging into a corner....then maybe some bubblegum whooping. You can scream and yell all you want but if you decide you are better than another member because you disagree you are not a man I would stand by. I would stand by the guy who cares for his family before running screaming down the street. If it comes to something more there will be people that march the streets and there will be wise leaders...Like the man you call the problem.
     
  18. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    don't forget the second offense is a felony...

    My guess is its possible that total defiance to a law would nullify it but that requires literally total defiance as in more than the majority but darn near all people. So unless you know for a fact that literally everyone in Oregon is ignoring the law then it wouldn't be wise to ignore it.
     
  19. antisocialist541

    antisocialist541 Eugene Active Member

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    I'm no better than any man on this forum bud. Just stating some things that i believe are fact. I'm not trying to offend.
     
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  20. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    there is a huge difference between breaking the law and participating in a total rebellion war....
     
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