why is Taurus and hi point cosidered garbage

[rocky3]

I use to believe that the more you paid the better the product, no more. I have owned several Taurus pistols and revolvers and all were equal to S&W or Colt. One I bought used, it was sold to me as new, and had a problem, Taurus honored their warranty and made my gun as new. Ruger makes some fine guns and has a history of making great guns and than discontinuing them.
I recently purchased a Phoenix 22 and I haven't shot it so far...due to inclement weather. I like the gun and I think I will have it a long time. Parts are available and after some easy fixing the magazine safties are no longer a problem. yup, I believe,for $130.00 it to be superior to Ruger's 22 pistols, and other high cost 22's.
Google and U Tube are wonderful for researching guns and learning what is good or bad of such.
One piece of advice: don't get overly excided over a particular gun until you do the research before buying.

 

[roknHS]

I don't have any experience with Hi-Point so, I can't say one way or the other.
I have a Taurus 101 which is the Beretta 96 clone. It is an excellant pistol in both quality and performance. I am totally satisfied with it and will probably own it till I die.
I have experience with a Taurus 24/7 that I thought was a piece of junk made out of Campbell soup cans.
My son (he's seen a lot of Taurus models his shooting friends have) tells me the clones Taurus makes are in general very good quality and perform as good or better than the original. The Taurus original designs can be very poor quality and very unreliable.
From what I've seen, I think my son is correct. The clones Taurus makes are top notch...........their own designs are a crap shoot.

 

[1337BaldEagle]

I have no experience with Hi-Point, and mixed experiences with Taurus. I currently have Taurus pump action 22 and 22 mag carbines, they are fun and work fine. My father bought a stainless pump 22 lr that would not function out of the box.

The most accurate revolver I ever owned was a Taurus 44 special. The least accurate revolver I ever owned was a Taurus titanium 357. I hear the Raging Bull series is well designed and well made, but internal parts can't be polished without compromising their structural integrity.

Taurus makes some good guns, but they are a mess to tune, and the rate of problems that crop up is something to take a hard look at. I would buy rifles from them in the future, but never plan to have another pistol or revolver. That said, some people really like the Taurus Slim carry pistol. If budget is your primary concern, Taurus may suit you.

I like the Tanfoglio Elite Match pistols, definitely a budget item. Plenty of people talk smack about them, and the company has certainly made pistols that ended up with cracked slides and frames. Mine outperforms my CZ race pistol that cost me almost a thousand dollars more. Some budget firearms rock.

Figure out what you want the gun for. I like a direct neural link for a target trigger, which can be done on a steel frame gun, but isn't something I've experienced with a polymer pistol. The internet is super helpful for listening to people complain. A lot of known issues for particular guns are easy to find out about, and easy to find fixes for. Buy what you like best.

Longevity can be a real issue with small parts. Proper material selection, tolerances, tempering and hardening, and resistance to wear are important if you actually shoot a lot. That work can be expensive, so you pay for it up front, or with aftermarket or replacement parts, or with a frequently broken gun, or one that isn't accurate.

I believe Taurus products are a crap shoot. You can get a good one, but a great many of us have owned bad ones. That being said, many of us have owned Colt 1911's that required a lot of work.

Some cheap brands are surprisingly good, like Norinco pistols, which seem like a good value for the money.

If some particular gun really captures your imagination, get it, take care of it, and shoot it. If you don't like it, you can trade it for something else. If somebody's gun fits your hand really well, pick up one of those. I have friends that really like Sigs, but I don't enjoy shooting those I've tried, despite them being good guns.

I upgraded the recoil spring in my Elite Match, because the factory spring is weak. It is a known issue with an easy fix, and I'm happy with my cheap gun. Get what you want, but you are doing the right thing by asking these people, getting opinions from other gun owners. It is frustrating when stuff breaks in your hands, especially if it explodes while doing so.

Like a lot of other guys, I am a fan of Ruger products when it comes to well built and cheap. Although I have an SR22 that has been nothing but problems out of the box.

Your mileage may vary. Have fun!

As far as the SR22 I had issues with mine, none that great customer service didn't fix though. Not that one should have to go through customer service to finally get a quality firearm. Also HansC I'm pretty sure I know who you are, is that weird?
Eagle

 

[HansC]

Can't say that my online handle is all that creative, so if you know some guy named Hans that carries a blind dachshund around upside down, then yep, that's me.

At some point I need to send that gun in, get it fixed, and get rid of it. The Mark series pistols Ruger makes I really enjoy shooting. I have a S&W AR that won't chamber a round, somebody went a little crazy with the Melonite in the chamber. I always get a little miffed when a brand new gun can't operate. I even have one of those stupid Glocks with the picatinny rail, the model where the magazine release doesn't work if there are bullets in the magazine. Glock perfection, all right.

I don't know how firearms manufacturers find out about me, but I've been an unpaid beta tester for a long time. There's probably a little sign near the box where the factory defects get piled, explaining how to reach me.

If you do know me, send a PM, let's go target shooting. Always an adventure. Last time I went out, my Ruger P90s were jamming consistently, something I didn't think was possible. Finally figured out that my Winchester white box .45s were out of spec and too long. Happy I didn't try to shoot them out of my Glock 21, as I've heard they will fire out of battery.

It was my first experience with brand new, American made ammo being badly made and unsafe. In some sort of emergency, if I were ever needing to use a firearm, I'd probably be better off grabbing a framing hammer. The kind that's just one piece, so the head doesn't fly off the handle as I pick it up.

 

[MountainBear]

The smaller the caliber on the hi-points, the more they seem to need repair. I have sold several 40's and 45's, and the owners all report no issues. The 9mm's I've sold both had to go back to the factory for warranty (failure to feed, failure to eject, failure of slide to return to battery). They came back and are already back with issues (I verified that the first set of problems were with the guns, but have not verified these new issues). I cannot, in good conscience, sell a gun that only bats .500 or worse. As much as we'd love people to shoot guns they are going to use for protection, I'm afraid all too often they take them home, load them, and stick them in a sock drawer. The gun needs to go bang. Unfortunately, a warrantied turd is still a turd. If you have one, have shot it, and love it, power to you.

Taurus are an interesting debate. Their QC return rate is certainly higher than most other companies, at least in my experience. I've worked in big box stores and now own my own shop. We used to sent multiple Taurus a month back to the factory for repair. And that's just guns that were new. Others came in after sale and needed warranty. My personal experience as a gunsmith with Taurus hasn't been good. I screwed up and lost a pin from a Taurus Raging Bull several years ago. It was my fault, I simply assumed that their pins were swaged into the frame like a S&W. So I called and explained, they said no worries, that they'd send me the part right away, no charge. Fantastic, I thought. Seven years later, still no part (yes, I've given up now). All this being said, I think they are still batting at a higher average than Hi-Point, so I still stock a few of them. They will never be a primary line for me. But their price point is generally hard to argue with, although Ruger and Taurus aren't far enough apart most of the time to pass up the Ruger, at least in my opinion.

Any gun manufacturer will have QC issues. All will have loyal customers, all will have their detractors. If you want it, buy it. If you buy it, shoot it. And then, if you shoot it (and it functions) then carry or use it. The internet makes fantastic reading, but a Abraham Lincoln once said, "Only 75% of what I read on the internet is true"...

 

[FAST ED]

I own pt92 in stainless with 3000+ rnds and only one failure to go into battery with magtech ammo. I polished the internals and it runs like a swiss watch. In competition I have seen many Beretta 92's and Kimbers fail. STI's dont fail often but they do. The reality is most failures (except broken parts) are due to poor maintenance just like with cars period! The one I like best is "I wanted to see how long it would run out of the box without cleaning". Try this with a car and oil changes. Burned powder is like fine sand.

Thats my .0002 cents

 

[drewp]

well my buddy has a bug shinny Taurus.40 and it goes bang every time other than that idk.

hi point...ive had 4 of them over the last year...they are great... just make sure you only use the factory magazines. they have legendary service and warranty. last time I dealt with them for a bent firing pin, I sent the whole gun in to them and I received my same gun cleaned and assembled with a new updated stock and two new (extra) mags...I don't think any other gun manufacturer does that...
now that being said, they are ugly, heavy and I sold all my hipoints off to other members on this forum but I got nothing against them

 

[ZigZagZeke]

I've been buying my own weapons for about 50 years now. As a kid I was always around guns. There's a picture of me in the old family album shooting a sawed off .22 rifle at the age of about 5. What I learned growing up was that quality firearms were Winchester, Colt, Smith & Wesson, Sharps, Remington, Browning, and Ithaca. Second tier weapons were made by Savage, Marlin, Stevens, etc. Anything else was pure junk and not to be touched. In those days it was expected that a firearm was a multiple generation investment, and that it would have steel parts, good wood, and fit and finish that entailed a lot of hand work. The reason that the second tier firearms were second tier was mainly their utilitarian wood, stamped and pot metal parts, and their obvious lack of hand fit and finish work. It was expected that a Winchester or a Colt would gain in value over the years. Not so for a Western Field or J.C. Higgins.

It's not that Savage and Marlin have gotten better over the years, it's that in later years the quality of Winchester and Remington, and several other first tier firearms brands declined to match Savage and Marlin. When I recently went looking for a deer rifle for my step son I chose a 1955 made rifle over an identical new rifle for about the same price, simply because the 1955 model started with better materials and was better fitted than the new rifle.

I don't know if Taurus will ever catch up with the first tier brands. It'll take a couple more decades before we know, I think. Meanwhile, the quality of the "name" brands continues to decline. It bugs the hell out of me that my favorite modern deer rifle has aluminum bottom metal. It seems to be pretty standard these days, and it's hard to find one that doesn't, but in my book, "pot" metal doesn't belong on a high quality firearm.

From what I can tell, High Point is still in that "junk"category, and doesn't appear to be headed anywhere else.

 

[etrain16]

So, a couple of months ago, I went ahead and bought a Hi-Point JHP (.45). I've been curious for a long time about them, and for the price, I thought I'd give it a try. To be sure, it's ugly and heavy. I added a Hogue slip on grip to it to help with the smooth grip that comes with the gun - and that helped a lot. I took it to the range and shot 50 shots out of the box without a single problem. Since then, I've put another 100 rounds through it, also with no problems. What I can say is that from my perspective, so far, at least in .45 cal, it's been as reliable as any other handgun I've owned - S&W, Glock, Ruger. I probably still wouldn't rely on it for self-defense as long as I have the others around, but I will say it's fun to shoot, and, of course gets looks from lots of folks at the range when they see me pull the 'ugly' gun from my bag.

 

[Jim Colvill]

I've got a Hi Point 4595 TS carbine and haven't had a lick of trouble with it. It's fugly, has the ergonomics of a brick, and is heavy but not nearly so much as the WW2 relics I've been shooting. It's easy and fun to shoot and easy to keep on target. I have no qualms about using it in the home defense role.

 

[dwaineshort]

I really don't get the reputation that they have. I have a Taurus 709 slim in stainless and it is a fantastic weapon, great trigger, nice and compact, a real safety, and never fails to bang, and the company has fantastic customer service. My pistol a slight kink in the recoil spring (don't know if it was liek that when i bought it but it never affected how it shot I just wanted one that wasn't kinked) and they got one to me right away. I shot my brother in laws hi point 9mm carbine and I am not kidding you it was awesome, it is crazy to be ringing steel at 100 yards with a 9mm. I have also heard they have fantastic customer service.

Because a lot of their old stuff was crap. Thankfully now they both makes stuff you can trust.

 

[thorborg]

After 111 post further comment is moot but since weighing in seems to be a feels good elixer i'll drink from that fountain. My outdated experience was revolvers, no problem, repeaters iffy. That would be a 15 year old opine gathered from close friends and myself as owners then moving on to bigger and better. I could only hope Taurus has got the message and corrected things but stuck with lingering bad rep.
With no current relevent experience, I have noticed from the readings of many gun forums that Kimber ( i own none) seems to have more sour grapes in the failure to feed and customer service than Taurus. Lacking imperical data, that could be because taurus talk is down and kimber talk is up.
Just an observation.
Today, I see Taurus as an affordable and exceptable starter product. No need to spend a thousand dollars on something that may end up living in your sock drawer. If you buy used they should maintain value so your out nothing if you up grade. Unless your like most of us here that can't seem to justify getting rid of a gun unless there is no where left to put it and the new one needs a home.

 

[soberups]

Taurus--I have owned several of their revolvers and the quality was hit or miss. They have excellent customer service, which is fortunate since the odds are good that a Taurus owner will have to make use of it. If you are going to buy a Taurus, you should make sure you have another gun to back it up in case you have to send it in for repair.

HiPoint----if I am ever in the market for a bulky, heavy, low capacity, blowback-action handgun made of pot metal then I would definitely choose a Hi-Point over a Lorcin or a Jennings. I am told that their handguns are reliable and I have no reason to doubt it, but I have no need for anything that Hi Point sells so I will take a pass.