why is Taurus and hi point cosidered garbage

[gunfreak]

A friend bought a Raven 22 so we went out to shoot it. The firing pin came flying out the back of it while he was shooting it.

Hipoint guns rank in with lorcin, davis, raven. Junk.


ok you made a statement... back it up... do you own one of each of these??

 

[gunfreak]

Taurus shipped me a brand new gun for which I took to the local gun shop and traded for a Ruger.

Here was my Taurus, I still have my hand thank God. But I will never shoot one ever again.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Has Taurus been transformed ????

Good question, I have been selling Taurus for the past 12 years, and have had one gun go back with issues.

WE have not had any serious failures, with the one we had being a failure to always fire.

The internal lash up on a small auto would not always engage and allow the action to work.

We called Davidsons, they sent us a call ticket, the gun went back and within a couple days a fresh one showed up.

The customer picked it up and has been happy since.

As with any company that's coming up in the world, they had some "teething" issues, and their were some rough spots in the early days, with some stuff that was very sketchy.

They had a much needed revamping in the QC department some years ago, and most of the early issues seem to have been rectified.

The one thing about Taurus though, you DON'T see die cast slides and that crap, not even their low end lines go into that area.

We have kept Taurus on the shelf as a main stay and then keep a few high end items to cover.

Ruger is always a top seller as are Beretta, Glock, Springfield Armory, Kahr, Smith.

We will on occasion get a Colt, but this is rare due to cost and availability, or should I say the lack of.

We have never had any issues with the large Taurus Revolvers at all.

The American Tactical imports and American Classic have been OK, as have some items from Chiappa.

The old stand names like Remington, Winchester, Mossberg and such are always a pretty good bet.

When you jump into the custom shop stuff from Ed Brown and several other high end outfits, you are into an area where the amount of $$$$$$$$$$$ makes little difference and the folks that buy this stuff usually have deep pockets.

Over in the Cowboy Corral, we have sold EMF, Cimarron and the Uberti, which builds most of the stuff for the other outfits.
Pedersoli has been OK as well.

The repro vintage stuff has taken off with the advent of the cowboy action game and most of the big boys tossed their hat in the ring.

Now, if you want to have a faithful repro to look like Wyatt Earp, the Uberti, EMF and Cimarron are great, they last well and are Colt Clones.

If you want a beast of SIX GUN that will stand about anything, then a pair of Ruger Vaqueros is the ticket.

I shot cowboy for a few years and used a pair of EMF Colt clones in 44 special (I already loaded for the 44)

The two pistols I owned never missed a lick.

The only thing is, these guns are like the original Colts, they use leaf spprings and they can break.

The Ruger uses coil springs, which are stronger and generally last longer.

There are other guns I have not mentioned, not because they are not good, just did not go there is all.

You Get What you pay for in most cases.

That does not mean that just because you dropped a grand or more for your Kimber 1911 fully tweeked custom carry, that you got your moneys worth.

You are paying for a name in many cases.

Now I will digress a bit, GLOCK, yeah I hear the groans from the gallery, butttttttttttttttttt, back in the day, Gaston Glock was given the task of designing a new weapon for military use, and it had to meet a buttload of very tough standards.

Glock, at that time had never built a gun, and had no preconceived notions about it either. He designed the gun to be able to do what was being asked of it.

Now, the Smith sigma, was in the early days, a near direct copy of the Glock.

The Springfield is a variation on the same theme as well.

A new comer to the plastic gun Glock copies is the FMK (For my country, made in California) looks very much like a Glock.

I have sold these, they are a fine gun at a very reasonable price.
So far as I know, they only come in 9mm

Ahhhhh, they are also available in PINK for the girls, and a the very first one we got was a pink one, and it sold within a few minutes of its arrival in the shop.

So there it is.
Be your own judge of things, but if it's got a ZINC SLIDE, better cough twice and pass IMHO

Missy Snowy

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Old Scottish proverb

Fool me once, shame on you

Fool me twice, shame on me

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Oly went through some teething back in it's SGW days.

Pretty good stuff now.

I try not to judge harshly unless it's really necessary.

Snowy

 

[JackThompson]

Old Scottish proverb

Fool me once, shame on you

Fool me twice, shame on me

Alright Blitz. Since you're gonna draw from my heritage I'll one up ya!

Old Celtic Prayer:
Dear Lord,
Let those that love us, love us.
If they do not love us,
turn their hearts so they may love us.
If they still will not love us,
Turn their ankles, so we may know them by their limp.

P.S. Great info thanks Snowy!

 

[Bill L]

Here was my Taurus, I still have my hand thank God. But I will never shoot one ever again.

Not to be nosy, but what kind of ammo were you running through that when it went BOOM?

 

[Member 34319]

I see a lot of, mine worked fine, mine blew ups, in this thread.

I'll approach it from a different angle.

Many here see guns as tools. Each not they own tends to have a purpose.

Look at it as if your looking at the tool world.

Let's argue Harbor Freight, vs Sears.

I own many Harbor freight tools. Many have less than important tasks and roles. I understand they are a lesser costing product and they may fail. However I put up with that as the cost to task is beneficial to me.

Then I own many Craftsman tools as well. These tools tend to have more important roles and I may use them more often. Hence I need them to be tip top construction. I also like that they are warranted. So if needed, if one so happens to fail. I can replace it for free.


Going back to Taurus. Well, they fit into some of the above categories. They have a known reputation of lessor quality. Yet if they work as well as the higher end tools available the cost to benefit outweighs the risk?

That's my concern. The risk.

I guess what I'm trying to say is be 100% sure you did not get one of the bad apples before you put it in for use as an "important" tool.

I have 500ish rounds of hollow point through my TCP practicing with it maybe 1500 total if ball is included. I only started carrying it after 300 rounds were through it. I feel good knowing I got a good one and I use it in correlation with other tools that I mark for "important" use.

The other Taurus I own is my wife's range pistol. It is going on 2-3000 rounds. It hiccups a lot therefor I don't necessarily label it ready for "important" use.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Not to be nosy, but what kind of ammo were you running through that when it went BOOM?

2nd that.
What ammo, reloads?
Was it well maintained.. I.e. the cylinder timing lining up.

 

[jluck]

2nd that.
What ammo, reloads?
Was it well maintained.. I.e. the cylinder timing lining up.

A third on that! Aren't all guns proof tested? I smell a intelligence lacking donky all the sudden. ..

 

[JackThompson]

I've run about 500 rounds through my Taurus .357 Mag (Including some pretty hot Hornady defense ammo) and it hasn't ever hiccuped either.

I did go through the timing tests on the cylinder after watching some videos online showing how to tell whether you have issues or not. (Holding the cylinder with your thumb while dry firing it to keep reverse pressure on it etc.) and it works flawlessly. I will be upgrading to a stainless 4" barrel model because 1. I sweat on it when carrying it IWB and I've already had to have it touched up from rust spots, and 2. I need more gun to eat up some of the powerful .357 recoil.

On a side note. I've seen a lot of people say Hi Points work great but aren't pretty, and others say they wouldn't carry them in their shop, but none that say they wouldn't carry them in their shop give any actual reason. Is it just reputation and cheapness? Or do they have catastrophic failures as well? (I'm thinking about picking up a Hi Point 9mm as a backup gun since I can still find 9mm on the shelves everywhere, but not so much for .38 special or .357 Mag.)

 

[gunfreak]

Not to be nosy, but what kind of ammo were you running through that when it went BOOM?

Remington green box, I just assumed that it was the pistols fault and shipped it off. They sent me back a new one without blinking an eye.

 

[Bon Sauvage]

Aren't all guns proof tested? I smell a intelligence lacking donky all the sudden. ..

 

[Snowy Rivers]

HARBOR FREIGHT TOOLS.

I Have bought many tools from them and beat the lovin !@#$% out of them.

I would do it again in a heart beat.

Good bang for the buck.

Snowy

 

[salmonriverjohn]

Me2 snowy.

 

[idahoan]

I will third the Harbor freight tools, with a caveat, you have to do your research on the item. Some of their stuff is awesome, some of it is garbage.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I see a lot of, mine worked fine, mine blew ups, in this thread.

I'll approach it from a different angle.

Many here see guns as tools. Each not they own tends to have a purpose.

Look at it as if your looking at the tool world.

Let's argue Harbor Freight, vs Sears.

I own many Harbor freight tools. Many have less than important tasks and roles. I understand they are a lesser costing product and they may fail. However I put up with that as the cost to task is beneficial to me.

Then I own many Craftsman tools as well. These tools tend to have more important roles and I may use them more often. Hence I need them to be tip top construction. I also like that they are warranted. So if needed, if one so happens to fail. I can replace it for free.


Going back to Taurus. Well, they fit into some of the above categories. They have a known reputation of lessor quality. Yet if they work as well as the higher end tools available the cost to benefit outweighs the risk?

That's my concern. The risk.

I guess what I'm trying to say is be 100% sure you did not get one of the bad apples before you put it in for use as an "important" tool.

I have 500ish rounds of hollow point through my TCP practicing with it maybe 1500 total if ball is included. I only started carrying it after 300 rounds were through it. I feel good knowing I got a good one and I use it in correlation with other tools that I mark for "important" use.

The other Taurus I own is my wife's range pistol. It is going on 2-3000 rounds. It hiccups a lot therefor I don't necessarily label it ready for "important" use.

These Taurus were in fact only range pistols.. my girl has always packed S&Ws. Even back then the cost to return them for repair was more than they were worth

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I will third the Harbor freight tools, with a caveat, you have to do your research on the item. Some of their stuff is awesome, some of it is garbage.

I would never include HF tools in my field repair kits, although I do own some

 

[Snowy Rivers]

I bought a 3-1/2" socket from HFT and we had a 3/4" break bar on it, plus apiece of pipe with a chain on that tied to the truck.

What followed was FUGLY

The imported socket held fast, the Craftsman break bar shattered when we bent it past about 15 degrees.

The entire setup landed across the driveway, buttttttttttttttttttt, the nasty old bolt came loose

I am tough on tools, and don't mind destroying stuff if need be to get tough jobs done.

I have a set of HFT 1/2" impact sockets that were said to be junk.
I have owned those sockets since 1984 and they still reside in my rollaway in the little red tray they came in.

They show the abuse of years of hard loving but still work.

I have a Jet metal cutting band saw from HFT as well, and it still works fine.

Yeah, they do sell some crap, but it's like guns, ya get what ya pay for.

I will not buy such stuff as SnapOn, far too pricey.

My box has a mixture of Crafstman, Proto, SK, Napa, and a dukes mixture of old brands I have scared up at garage sales.
I did buy some odds and ends of SnapOn this past fall at a sale, but it was a bucket full for $10

I usually buy the NAPA cheap stuff anymore, they are lifetime warranty and when they go away, we get a new one

I have a New Britain 1/4 drive set I bought in 1970, and its still going strong.

Yeah, long live HFT YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

[HansC]

I have no experience with Hi-Point, and mixed experiences with Taurus. I currently have Taurus pump action 22 and 22 mag carbines, they are fun and work fine. My father bought a stainless pump 22 lr that would not function out of the box.

The most accurate revolver I ever owned was a Taurus 44 special. The least accurate revolver I ever owned was a Taurus titanium 357. I hear the Raging Bull series is well designed and well made, but internal parts can't be polished without compromising their structural integrity.

Taurus makes some good guns, but they are a mess to tune, and the rate of problems that crop up is something to take a hard look at. I would buy rifles from them in the future, but never plan to have another pistol or revolver. That said, some people really like the Taurus Slim carry pistol. If budget is your primary concern, Taurus may suit you.

I like the Tanfoglio Elite Match pistols, definitely a budget item. Plenty of people talk smack about them, and the company has certainly made pistols that ended up with cracked slides and frames. Mine outperforms my CZ race pistol that cost me almost a thousand dollars more. Some budget firearms rock.

Figure out what you want the gun for. I like a direct neural link for a target trigger, which can be done on a steel frame gun, but isn't something I've experienced with a polymer pistol. The internet is super helpful for listening to people complain. A lot of known issues for particular guns are easy to find out about, and easy to find fixes for. Buy what you like best.

Longevity can be a real issue with small parts. Proper material selection, tolerances, tempering and hardening, and resistance to wear are important if you actually shoot a lot. That work can be expensive, so you pay for it up front, or with aftermarket or replacement parts, or with a frequently broken gun, or one that isn't accurate.

I believe Taurus products are a crap shoot. You can get a good one, but a great many of us have owned bad ones. That being said, many of us have owned Colt 1911's that required a lot of work.

Some cheap brands are surprisingly good, like Norinco pistols, which seem like a good value for the money.

If some particular gun really captures your imagination, get it, take care of it, and shoot it. If you don't like it, you can trade it for something else. If somebody's gun fits your hand really well, pick up one of those. I have friends that really like Sigs, but I don't enjoy shooting those I've tried, despite them being good guns.

I upgraded the recoil spring in my Elite Match, because the factory spring is weak. It is a known issue with an easy fix, and I'm happy with my cheap gun. Get what you want, but you are doing the right thing by asking these people, getting opinions from other gun owners. It is frustrating when stuff breaks in your hands, especially if it explodes while doing so.

Like a lot of other guys, I am a fan of Ruger products when it comes to well built and cheap. Although I have an SR22 that has been nothing but problems out of the box.

Your mileage may vary. Have fun!