why is Taurus and hi point cosidered garbage

[jhouxor]

I own a Hi-Point C9 (my first pistol) and from the get-go I had to tweak the magazine feed lips to get it to cycle rounds. After doing that and keeping it clean I've had no further issues. It isn't my go to weapon but I'll keep it around the house as an extra

 

[misplacedtexan]

While I have never had a problem with a Taurus, I believe you get what you pay for.

While the Taurus isn't 'crap', I wouldn't put it on par with a glock, XD, M&P that are likely 200$ higher than it.

They are great guns, I've loved a few of them myself.

 

[BAMCIS]

They've outshot my kimber.. Well past kimber.
And a few 1911s to boot.

Well, that's not saying much.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

I will say this.

AS a dealer, we pride ourselves on customer service. You want brand x, we will get it for you.
We will transfer anything that legal, even a Jennings.

WE carry Taurus and usually have a selection in stock.

Hi point is not on our list of stocking items.

I rest my case.

 

[idahoan]

And see that is my exact point, you can say many things about Hi Point such as, ugly, heavy, odd ergonomics, low capacity for size, and shaped like a brick, but I don't think that unreliable is one of those things.

 

[JackThompson]

No, and from a dealer perspective I can imagine the Hi Point doesn't really have much margin for profit, so it's not really worth the shelf space to sell them.

I cleaned up a Hi Point 9mm for my brother in law once and ran a few mags through it. It was pretty dirty and beat up a bit like a trunk gun, but once cleaned it worked fine.

I'd buy one in a heartbeat for a plinker. I don't think I would ever use one (Or have anybody in my family) for primary carry piece, but a good enough backup.

 

[2beaucoup]

Love my PT 145. Had it since '02 and it has been my EDC ever since.

 

[Member 34319]

I consider Taurus an entry level manufacturer. They aren't bad by any means. They are not perfect by any means.

My first pistol was a PT111. Great concealable pistol. Not bad at 300 either, when I bought it.

I also got one of their 1911s when buds had them for 400. Great gun.

I don't own those two anymore. They were both replaced by guns of a higher level.

I still own a pink PT111 that is the wife's. As well as my TCP.

Throughout both pistols lives. Both operated flawlessly.

At the price and inherent, known risk they have quality control issues I put them in the entry lever range. A good starter pistol. To get your feet wet before moving on to something higher priced and may or may not have higher quality.

I do believe they do do something's right. The TCP is by far my favorite 380 on the current market, at least until I get my paws on the Glock.

Their revolvers are supposedly outstanding products, though I have never owned one, I hear lots of great things there.

Hard to say really. If any thing most if the hate comes from the price. Those feel the price reads quality tend to label them as junk.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Hi point use a die cast slide.
They use Zinc alloy for this, which is not nearly as sturdy as a good quality alloy steel or stainless.

This is why the Hi point is so heavy. They need to make the slides more massive to allow for the less than stellar strength of the zinc.

Why do they use Zinc, it can be die cast easily, and this saves a lot of cost $$$$$$$$$$ in machining.

Precision cast items are nearly ready for assembly as they come from the foundry.

Now, how does zinc hold up ????
I have seen slide come off a Jennings 9mm after the front bulkhead (where the barrel goes through and the recoil spring rests break off.

The slide went back over the fellows shoulder and landed in the dirt approx 20 feet behind him.

Had the slide hit him in the head, likely the outcome would have been far more grim, than his needing clean shorts as was the outcome.

I will not sell or shoot any pistol with a Zinc die cast slide.

Any time you pick up a semi auto pistol and it is super heavy compared to a Glock, Sig, FN, Taurus etc, the reason is the weapon has a zinc slide.

Bad ju ju

Not on my watch.

Taurus had some crap early on, but today, their quality is very good.

They make a lovely 1911, this said it's not a Colt or a custom shop piece, but still good.
Their small 380 and 9 mike pieces are top notch as are their revolvers.
Their hand cannons are well made too.

They got a bad rap back years ago when they got started, and it's hard to break first impressions.

Another brand that I tend to avoid is the Charter arms, they are OK but a tad bit cheezy IMHO

Snowy

 

[bigdadytid]

I have a Taurus 1911 and a 605 revolver in .357 magnum. I have no complaints

 

[Bill L]

In regards to Taurus, this is what I was told by a dealer about a year ago when I asked him straight out on the Tracker, and whether he would purchase and carry one. He said, "NO". His main beef is that about 1% have some major quality control issues, iirc it had to do with both tempering and machining, and getting them serviced/replaced by the factory is a major hassle. He stated that many don't have problems, but when they do have problems they are major. His parting remark about the brand overall, "I wouldn't bet my life on one."

Of course, this is one guy's opinion, and maybe the random malevolence of the universe picked his shop to have more of the 1% he referred to than the norm. That said, a co-worker has one of their 1911's, shoots matches, and LOVES it.

Could be Taurus is like a domestic made car; never buy one built on Monday.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

We only get new guns through Davidsons.
They offer a lifetime warranty with replacement and no BS

The straight scoop, within the firearms industry today (industry average) about 30% of the new guns sold will not work out of the box.

Sure, some brands are far better, but I have seen some big name stuff that choked right out of the gate.

Snowy

 

[Mongo1]

My unfavorable opinion of taurus is based on the poor workmanship of two of their stainless revolvers that were inherited by my now ex son in law. I see quite a few posts of people that like them and people that will never waste their money on another one. I did read recently taurus had a recall on 98,000 pistols. I don't "hate" taurus, but I won't buy one either. You can become a taurus collector if you like, none for me.

 

[simon99]

We only get new guns through Davidsons.
They offer a lifetime warranty with replacement and no BS

The straight scoop, within the firearms industry today (industry average) about 30% of the new guns sold will not work out of the box.

Sure, some brands are far better, but I have seen some big name stuff that choked right out of the gate.

Snowy

30%....I doubt it, unless those numbers are skewed by low end manufacturers. To think that out of a shipment of 100 Glocks 30 wouldn't work right out of the box??? I would guess that with most companies Sig, Glock, HK, Beretta, Springfield Armory, S&W, etc....that number is more like 1% or lower and most of the time its probably user error after the first day at the range.

 

[1337BaldEagle]

ugly,..., odd ergonomics,..., and shaped like a brick.

You could say the same things about Glock. Plus if your shot in the arm and you have a weak wrist it will FTE. As long as a gun shoots reliably and what your used to, what you have practiced with, and your ok with it then it is a good gun FOR YOU. As far as customer service and QC goes that's another story. You have to ask your self is the customer relations worth the extra cost? I would say in some cases, yes. My dealings with Bushmaster were horrific. I will forever and always go with another brand as a result. Point I'm trying to make, haters be haters, what works for you works for you.

 

[nwo]

I have had experience with both brands. There is nothing wrong with either of them. They work.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

The statement I made was 30% of guns sold.

This is an average, and does not apply to some manufacture products.

The low end crap adds a large amount to the numbers.

Having been in the biz for a lotta years, I have seen a buttload of stuff that did not work.

IT'S a sad truth.

I have seen AR-15's right out of the crate that would not work properly.
I have seen revolvers that sprayed lead out the sides (timed wrong)
Semi autos that would not feed or eject properly.

Rifles that would not extract.
Shotguns that would not feed shells from the tube onto the elevator.

Gawd the list is long and varied.

No one company, but the averages are not great overall.

Mass produced items and workers that don't have any Esprit De Corps

Sorry to toss cold water on the camp fire troops, but life is not perfect.

A customer paid a buttload of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for a 499 Lightner Wise 50 cal AR a few years ago, and it would not work.

I took it in the shop and fixed it.

WE used to make the 502 Thunder Sabre 50 cal AR and every gun was run at least 25 rounds prior to it being cleaned and readied for sale.

They worked when they left the shop.

Sadly the quality control is just so so out there in gunville folks.

You get what you pay for, wellllll, sometimes at least.

You drop $3k for a 1911 and its gonna be a good one.
You spend $399 for one, it might work, maybe.


Snowy

 

[Artilleryman]

my only experience with these two brands was a Taurus .454 Casull I bought used....and it was a helluva gun! never had a problem with it in the two years I owned it, and a lot of fun to shoot...I really regret having sold it, will definitely have to replace it eventually.

 

[etrain16]

Hi point use a die cast slide.
They use Zinc alloy for this, which is not nearly as sturdy as a good quality alloy steel or stainless.

This is why the Hi point is so heavy. They need to make the slides more massive to allow for the less than stellar strength of the zinc.


Snowy

I'm curious about what you said about the heavy slide. I've read several articles and reviews of the Hi-Points and each one said the same thing - the reason for the heavy slide has nothing to do with the strength of the slide, but rather the need to have a heavy slide due to the blow-back operation of the Hi-Point pistols. As I've read myself, any blow-back style pistol needs a heavy slide for proper operation. Whether you agree with the choice of their 'ZAMAK' material, it would still have to be a heavy slide to operate correctly.

BTW - here's a short article from Hi-Point's forum talking about their slides: <broken link removed>

And no, I don't own a Hi-Point, I just prefer that accurate information be presented whenever possible.

 

[tacticalgunner]

i had a 995 hi point and a taurus 92. the 995 was an awesome rifle, cap size was less than steller, but a fun rifle to play with. Ugly, well not really, not compared to a lot of the other art work out there. the taurus i had was not bad. I think in the new world of guns, its like everything else, price has dictated the customers. Is HK a better weapon or is it a status symbol now. I was in NW Armory the other day and some dude was telling the guy behind the counter that he did not want to see a 1911 under 1200 dollars because he only buys quality. Hmm I thought. Both are solid, every manufacture is not perfect. My first USP ejector broke on the first shot out for the box. My dad still shoots the taurus every weekend at over 50 rounds per saturday, still on the original barrel. its been solid.