Why I think CHL permits are 99.99% useless

[Liberty97045]

I'm

 

[Medic!]

It's really pretty simple.
1: Shall not be infringed. Period. That doesn't mean just a little or under certain circumstances, or to allow criminals to walk free (which is the sole purpose of background checks).
2: Permits by very definition are exceptions to do something that is otherwise illegal. Do you accept that exercising an inherent right is illegal unless you pay for an exception?
3: Anyone and Everyone that gets a permit helps further the idea that their right is a privilege by supporting it.
4: The notion that simply exercising a right without a special permission slip will result in being harassed and jailed is a notion that the gun control folks love being pushed. Most doing so have no first hand experience but help push the gun control agenda by scaring people into either not exercising the right or by hiding it when they do. In 4 years or so of open carrying daily I have never been even approached by cops because of doing so, let alone being harassed or jailed. Oh, and I refuse to get a permission slip to do so.
5: Many people, while they may not admit it, will choose to conceal carry as opposed to open carry with the idea that they avoid scaring or offending anyone. This is because they themselves think of firearms as some evil and terrible thing. There is however nothing inherently evil or wrong with firearms and therefore those reasons are bogus. For those that truly understand this we refuse to let others make us think they are.

Okay, perhaps I should have just left it at "Shall Not Be Infringed" however the above annoy me to no end because we deal with them regularly from people hiding right among us pretending to be gun rights advocates.

Ever here the saying ''There's always someone bigger than you''?

Maybe you live in a world of guns. So you just don't know.
But let me assure you. There are many people out there, capable of walking up to your proud gun toting self.
Grabbing you. And taking away your gun.
All the time with a big happy smile on there face!

At that point they may choose to shoot you with it?
Or maybe just stuff it up your a$$? There choice?

I mitigate this threat by concealing my gun.

 

[GunRightsCoalition]

Ever here the saying ''There's always someone bigger than you''?

Maybe you live in a world of guns. So you just don't know.
But let me assure you. There are many people out there, capable of walking up to your proud gun toting self.
Grabbing you. And taking away your gun.
All the time with a big happy smile on there face!

At that point they may choose to shoot you with it?
Or maybe just stuff it up your a$$? There choice?

I mitigate this threat by concealing my gun.

Actually you are not really mitigating any threat. While it perhaps is possible it's highly unlikely that it will occur. Nationally it happens less than once a year. That puts the odds pretty small. There is however a much higher likelihood that someone with ill intent will see my firearm and decide to be elsewhere instead. That happens with much greater frequency.

 

[Medic!]

Actually you are not really mitigating any threat. While it perhaps is possible it's highly unlikely that it will occur. Nationally it happens less than once a year. That puts the odds pretty small. There is however a much higher likelihood that someone with ill intent will see my firearm and decide to be elsewhere instead. That happens with much greater frequency.

There was a recent thread here [Sept.] about a 25 year old man in Medford robed in the Walmart bathroom.
He was open caring a Springfield XD40.
And the more people that open carry in bigger cities.
The more were gona hear about them loosing there guns.

In any case. What is the percentage of concealed carry people being followed into the bathroom and loosing there guns?

I don't want there to be any reason to target me.
You can open carry until your hearts content. But if your in a bad areas. You will have to live on ''Condition Red'' at all times!

Thanks for your strong belief in our second amendment rights. I have them too. But normally I just carry for security reasons. Not to make a point about gun rights.

And I do understand there is a time and place for open carry. But Open and concealed carry are apples and oranges to me.

 

[mjbskwim]

As i always say,a bad guy goes into a store to rob it,see you with a gun on your hip with your head in the milk cooler and he sees Medic! sanding there with no gun [showing]
Who gets the dirt nap first?
The OC is either a cop or someone who needs to be dead, in the thief's eyes,just a threat

 

[GunRightsCoalition]

There was a recent thread here [Sept.] about a 25 year old man in Medford robed in the Walmart bathroom.
He was open caring a Springfield XD40.
And the more people that open carry in bigger cities.
The more were gona hear about them loosing there guns.

In any case. What is the percentage of concealed carry people being followed into the bathroom and loosing there guns?

I don't want there to be any reason to target me.
You can open carry until your hearts content. But if your in a bad areas. You will have to live on ''Condition Red'' at all times!

Thanks for your strong belief in our second amendment rights. I have them too. But normally I just carry for security reasons. Not to make a point about gun rights.

And I do understand there is a time and place for open carry. But Open and concealed carry are apples and oranges to me.

A better question is what is the percentage of open carriers followed in to be attacked as opposed to those that conceal carry. I already know which number is higher because we regularly see stories where concealed carriers are attacked (being forced to react with deadly force). We seldom ever see any where open carriers are though.

As for the reason I open carry it is primarily for security reasons, not to make a point. It is as a proven deterrent because I prefer not be attacked in the first place. If I conceal carry instead then I provide almost no deterrent and instead must instead react after an attack commences. If it is your preference to increase the likelihood that you will need to use deadly force then so be it however I prefer to avoid it if at all possible.

As i always say,a bad guy goes into a store to rob it,see you with a gun on your hip with your head in the milk cooler and he sees Medic! sanding there with no gun [showing]
Who gets the dirt nap first?
The OC is either a cop or someone who needs to be dead, in the thief's eyes,just a threat

Except that very seldom actually happens. What actually usually occurs is that bad guy walks in and sees that he will face some opposition and decides to go to a different store or waits until the opposition is gone.

 

[Spooler41]

The one good thing about having a CC permit here in Washington is, it allows the holder
to skip the 5 day waiting period when purchasing a hand gun. I don't like to make extra
trips to my local gun store for firearms pickup.

................................... Jack

 

[edslhead]

The one good thing about having a CC permit here in Washington is, it allows the holder
to skip the 5 day waiting period when purchasing a hand gun. I don't like to make extra
trips to my local gun store for firearms pickup.

................................... Jack

But you still get the 2 or 3 day DELAY

 

[Spooler41]

Edslhead, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, but I've never had
a delay on any firearm purchase. Prior to getting my CC permit , I did have
to do the 5 day waiting period. After getting my CC permit , the deal is fill
out the 4473 paper work, pay my bill, and I'm out the door in minuets.
No delays.
...................... Jack

 

[Medic!]

A better question is what is the percentage of open carriers followed in to be attacked as opposed to those that conceal carry. I already know which number is higher because we regularly see stories where concealed carriers are attacked (being forced to react with deadly force). We seldom ever see any where open carriers are though.

As for the reason I open carry it is primarily for security reasons, not to make a point. It is as a proven deterrent because I prefer not be attacked in the first place. If I conceal carry instead then I provide almost no deterrent and instead must instead react after an attack commences. If it is your preference to increase the likelihood that you will need to use deadly force then so be it however I prefer to avoid it if at all possible.


Except that very seldom actually happens. What actually usually occurs is that bad guy walks in and sees that he will face some opposition and decides to go to a different store or waits until the opposition is gone.

Yep. I'm just baiting someone in to Kill them. With my CONCEALED handgun.

 

[edslhead]

Edslhead, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, but I've never had
a delay on any firearm purchase. Prior to getting my CC permit , I did have
to do the 5 day waiting period. After getting my CC permit , the deal is fill
out the 4473 paper work, pay my bill, and I'm out the door in minuets.
No delays.
...................... Jack

Lucky you! Last two years for me, 20 delays, one went through at sale. One handgun I had to wait the full 5 days ( at the time). All with a CC.

 

[mjbskwim]

A better question is what is the percentage of open carriers followed in to be attacked as opposed to those that conceal carry. I already know which number is higher because we regularly see stories where concealed carriers are attacked (being forced to react with deadly force). We seldom ever see any where open carriers are though.

As for the reason I open carry it is primarily for security reasons, not to make a point. It is as a proven deterrent because I prefer not be attacked in the first place. If I conceal carry instead then I provide almost no deterrent and instead must instead react after an attack commences. If it is your preference to increase the likelihood that you will need to use deadly force then so be it however I prefer to avoid it if at all possible.


Except that very seldom actually happens. What actually usually occurs is that bad guy walks in and sees that he will face some opposition and decides to go to a different store or waits until the opposition is gone.

I'll call BS on this since there are no real statistics to prove otherwise.And I'll guarantee you a drugged out thief could care less if you have a gun or not. Heck he may want that gun
Maybe if there is more than 1 OCer,but just 1 guy is not much of a deterrent with the right amount of drugs or guns
I have no problem with folks open carrying. I do it more now cause I live where it's pretty common.But I never did in Tacoma or Seattle. Just didn't want or need the attention.

Edslhead, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, but I've never had
a delay on any firearm purchase. Prior to getting my CC permit , I did have
to do the 5 day waiting period. After getting my CC permit , the deal is fill
out the 4473 paper work, pay my bill, and I'm out the door in minuets.
No delays.
...................... Jack

Hey Jack,you have one less gun shop up there now. Fred's in Sequim is gone
Did you get in on the deals?
Anyway I used to work at Fred's and also got the necessary back round check to sell black powder. And had my carry permit
Still got delayed almost every time. Maybe for only a half hour,but almost always.

 

[Medic!]

To the One that calls himself a coalition.

Thank you. You have some really good points and I really like your argument.
At least it helps me to see both sides.

I'm gona keep my gun hidden. But as to open carry? Hat's off to those that can pull it off.

 

[Brutus57]

This horse is long out of the barn, ladies and gents. We obey the law, and in that, they have us by the short hairs.

Brutus Out

 

[GunRightsCoalition]

I'll call BS on this since there are no real statistics to prove otherwise.And I'll guarantee you a drugged out thief could care less if you have a gun or not. Heck he may want that gun
Maybe if there is more than 1 OCer,but just 1 guy is not much of a deterrent with the right amount of drugs or guns
I have no problem with folks open carrying. I do it more now cause I live where it's pretty common.But I never did in Tacoma or Seattle. Just didn't want or need the attention.

You're right, there are no statistics proving it one way or the other. It's easy enough to search around though and if it were a common occurrence then it is a safe bet that it would be in the media. That in itself is a telling statistic. FWIW, the only time I have ever had a cop approach me about open carrying specifically was in downtown Seattle an hour or so following the No on I-594 rally we held there last year. He wanted to shake my hand and thank me for exercising my right. Yes, I was shocked as it is the last place I expected that response.

To the One that calls himself a coalition.

Actually I represent a coalition of about 45 group and community leaders that all share the same goal of fighting to maintain and restore our right to keep and bear arms.