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Why I think CHL permits are 99.99% useless

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by co2emitter, Nov 5, 2015.

  1. co2emitter

    co2emitter New Member

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    The entire license/permit thing for carrying a handgun is illogical - it doesn't even make sense. I broke down all the permutations below, of open carry or conceal carry, permit or no permit, criminal or good guy.

    For Oregon law there are 8 permutations/possibilites. 4 of them are useless, and 4 of them are doubly useless (see below). The Oregon legislators have come up with 100% useless laws that make no sense whatsoever. The Oregon legislators have done a very bad job. Unless of course they wanted the laws to be useless, in which case they are doing a half way decent job of being criminal. In either case logic dictates they should be fired.

    Conceal carry permits are totally irrelevant. The one & only situation where a permit of any kind would ever make any sense is requiring a permit for open carrying, and a criminal would have to be open carrying without a permit, and even then, it's a very rare situation where a criminal would even open carry in the first place (especially if they knew a permit was required to do so), and someone would have to happen to ask to see their permit. And even then, what would happen in real life? The person asking to see the permit would realize the open carrier did not have a permit, but does that mean they were planning to commit a crime right then & there? Probably not. They won't be sure. They may call the police, just in case, which may prevent a crime. One other rare situation where a permit could be useful comes to mind: it may help police to weed out the good guys quickly when they're at a crime scene and there is a big crowd of potential suspects, but that is a 1 in a zillion situation and only a minor convenience for the police.

    Open carrying at least informs others that you have a gun but without requiring a permit for open carry it results in the frady-cat people being afraid of everyone carrying a gun. If permits were required for open carry then those frady-cats would be more accepting of the idea of people open carrying guns, but this permit is practically useless anyway because criminals wouldn't open carry so the only result would be for good guys to get harassed. Oregon's open carry without a permit is kind of a "loophole" allowing criminals to open carry without fear of being caught, yet as far as I know, even the anti-gun legislators don't even address this snafu. But they probably are aware of it, they probably like there to be no permit required for open carry, because they know it results in open carrying being less socially acceptable, they know the frady-cats are more scared of open carriers, so it furthers their agenda of making America a culture of subservient disarmed frady-cats.

    The only logical thing to me would be to have no permit required for anything because it is the best & safest policy and also saves everyone time & money. But if we're going to have a permit, the only way a permit makes any sense to me is if it were required for open carry (and also for concealed carry just in case someone sees the gun printing) and open carriers would also be required to display their permit (either clipped onto their shirt/jacket or hung around their neck), that way everyone could see whether an open carrier was a criminal or not without having to ask them (which is socially awkward and literally impossible if open carrying were to become popular).

    So we in Oregon pay money for our permits and get fingerprinted (putting ourselves at risk of future tyranny & identity theft & corruption) for absolutely nothing whatsoever, other than the 1 in a zillion chance the police may find it helpful to see our permit if we're part of a big crowd of suspects at a crime scene. Sheriffs across the nation should not be going along with making concealed handgun licenses/permits for everyone, shame on them all, they should refuse, and they should declare that anyone can carry any way they want. Who do they work for anyway? The only thing that gun permits are good for is mind controlling the population into being disarmed frady-cats subservient to a minority with absolute power. That's not good for anybody except the criminals.

    Here are all the permutations:

    permit required for conceal carry but not for open carry (this is Oregon law):
    CRIMINAL CONCEAL CARRYING:
    1) criminal has permit (first time criminal) but noone knows they have a gun so permit is USELESS.
    2) criminal doesn't have permit (can't pass background check) but noone knows they have a gun so permit is USELESS.
    CRIMINAL OPEN CARRYING:
    1) criminal has permit (first time criminal) and ppl know they have a gun, but it doesn't matter because permit is not required so people can't ask to see their permit, so permit is USELESS.
    2) criminal doesn't have permit (can't pass background check) and ppl know they have a gun, but it doesn't matter because permit is not required so people can't ask to see their permit, so permit is USELESS.
    GOOD GUY CONCEAL CARRYING:
    1) good guy has a permit but noone knows they have a gun, but doesn't matter since it's a good guy, so permit is DOUBLY USELESS.
    2) good guy doesn't have permit but noone knows they have a gun, but doesn't matter since it's a good guy, so permit is DOUBLY USELESS.
    GOOD GUY OPEN CARRYING:
    1) good guy has permit and ppl know they have a gun, but doesn't matter since permit not required so people can't ask to see their permit, but doesn't matter anyway since it's a good guy, so permit is DOUBLY USELESS.
    2) good guy doesn't have a permit and ppl know they have a gun, but doesn't matter since permit not required so people can't ask to see their permit, but doesn't matter anyway since it's a good guy, so permit is DOUBLY USELESS.

    permit required for open carry (irrelevant if permit required for conceal carry or not):
    CRIMINAL CONCEAL CARRYING:
    1) criminal has permit (first time criminal) but noone knows they have a gun so permit is USELESS.
    2) criminal doesn't have permit (can't pass background check) but noone knows they have a gun so permit is USELESS.
    CRIMINAL OPEN CARRYING: (will probably never happen because criminals don't usually open carry)
    1) criminal has permit (first time criminal) and ppl know they have a gun, but it doesn't matter because criminal has a permit, so permit USELESS.
    2) criminal doesn't have permit (can't pass background check) and ppl know they have a gun, but ppl probably won't ask to see their permit anyway especially if open carry becomes popular, even if ppl ask to see their permit the criminal could scoff or dodge the question, and even then a crime wasn't committed yet, even if the criminal is about to mass murder ppl the ppl won't know that and so probably aren't going to run away anyway, the ppl may call the police though so that may or may not help, so permit is MOSTLY USELESS. (Again, criminals probably won't open carry so this will probably never happen anyway.)
    GOOD GUY CONCEAL CARRYING:
    1) good guy has permit but noone knows they have a gun, and doesn't matter anyway since it's a good guy, so permit is DOUBLY USELESS.
    2) good guy doesn't have permit but noone knows they have a gun, and doesn't matter anyway since it's a good guy, so permit is DOUBLY USELESS.
    GOOD GUY OPEN CARRYING:
    1) good guy has permit and ppl know they have a gun, but doesn't matter since it's a good guy, so permit is DOUBLY USELESS & good guy may get HARASSED.
    2) good guy doesn't have permit and ppl know they have a gun, but doesn't matter anyway since it's a good guy, so permit is DOUBLY USELESS and potential LEGAL PROBLEMS for good guy.
     
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  2. jim97701

    jim97701 Bend Well-Known Member

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    WTF?
     
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  3. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Put the bong down and step outside for some fresh air. Its in your best interest I promise.
     
    Don H, Deepdiver, ron and 9 others like this.
  4. 308

    308 ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Platinum Supporter Silver Supporter

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    Reader's digest version?
    Anyone can open carry (where legal) in Oregon but there is a risk in doing so if one is a criminal
    Anyone can carry concealed, and since it's concealed, no one knows.
     
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  5. Velzey

    Velzey Estacada, Oregon Gunsmith Gunsmith Bronze Vendor Bronze Supporter

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    Welcome to NWF!
     
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  6. dobeman

    dobeman Hillsboro Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    my few words response: permit = control.
     
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  7. bearingman

    bearingman Tualatin Member

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    MINE GOT ME OUT OF A TICKET, SO IT PAID FOR IT'S SELF JUST FOR THAT
     
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  8. albin25

    albin25 Lewiston Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Got it!....concealed carry permits are stupid.(5 words).

    .... as is eating 5 lbs. of leftover Halloween candy, then washing it all down with a pot of coffee and a six pack of Red Bull at 1:00 AM.
     
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  9. edslhead

    edslhead Vanc Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Gotta read the fine print:p

    .... as is eating 5 lbs. of leftover Halloween candy, then washing it all down with a pot of coffee and a six pack of Red Bull at 1:00 AM.
     
  10. edslhead

    edslhead Vanc Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    But what's the good .01% ?
     
  11. Capn Jack

    Capn Jack Wet-Stern Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    C02emitter....
    Are you running for office, or writing your thesis?:p;)
     
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  12. B5Ben

    B5Ben Boise Well-Known Member

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    I think "Rant" should be somewhere in the first few lines...:rolleyes:
     
  13. mkwerx

    mkwerx Forest Grove, OR Well-Known Member

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    Sum it up - permits are stupid and the 2nd should BE our permit, period. Lots here would agree. There are states that this is the case. Oregon is not one. Unlikely to become one any time soon but hey they might require an oc permit soon or flat out ban oc except for hunting (which most in the legislature would ban if they could anyway - but that would get the fudds against them and probably cause them to loose their power).

    What would be nice is a strong pro 2a decision from scotus declaring permits ubconstitutional, declaring the 10,000 gun laws nationwide unconstitutional and actually declaring "shall not be infringed" to mean what any fourth grader would think it means. But thats a fairy tale ending.
     
  14. Caveman Jim

    Caveman Jim West of Oly Springer Slayer 2016 Volunteer

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    I stopped reading at the first line of the 3rd paragraph...... Good Lawdy that is some massive amounts of word soup......:eek::eek::eek:o_O:confused:
     
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  15. Medic!

    Medic! What just happened? Has eagle eyes. But cant remember what he saw. Bronze Supporter

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    Interesting?

    I just went and read your other two posts. :confused:
     
  16. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    Avatar a troll?
     
  17. tkdguy

    tkdguy Portland, Oregon Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

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    There is not empirical nor program nor legislative evaluations data to back up this unsupported opinion.
     
  18. tkdguy

    tkdguy Portland, Oregon Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

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    My thinking.
     
  19. Hayshaker

    Hayshaker Irrigon Active Member

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    0verloaded the bong???????????
     
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  20. Medic!

    Medic! What just happened? Has eagle eyes. But cant remember what he saw. Bronze Supporter

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    Maybe. Not sure.
    Some people here are as strange as I am! :s0140:
     
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