Why I reset my fingers: Ranges w/"no rapid fire" rules

[evltwn]

At risk of sounding old, back in the late 60's I was in Viet Nam and went to work with an M-16 daily. While I was never in a 'running gun battle" I was in fire fights, and I can share a few observations. 1) Practice provides muscle memory which can be invaluable during a stressful situation. Having to think about what you are doing can be compromised by the "fog of war".
2) I found I was clear headed during the fight, but had the shakes afterward.

I think what we are all talking about is the ability to perform at our best in a life and perhaps death situation. I carry a J frame Smith, with 5 shots available to me before having to reload. I practice to make those 5 really count, instead of spraying and praying. Would an XDm with 20 shots on board leave me better prepared? Not if I failed to practice, and missed 20 times! God forbid I should ever have to use deadly force, but I will to protect my loved ones. I think we are all practicing more than the bad guys are...which increases the odds of us living through an armed encounter.

 

[Topper]

How would you get more than one in the chamber?

He meant their one round in the magazine rule.

 

[Misterbill]

I would never, EVER pay money to be in a club with ridiculous rules like that.

It's a firing range for God's sake. If the FUDDs are so worked up about nonsense like that it's time to find a better class of people to spend time with.

 

[Redcap]

I would never, EVER pay money to be in a club with ridiculous rules like that.

It's a firing range for God's sake. If the FUDDs are so worked up about nonsense like that it's time to find a better class of people to spend time with.

Agreed!

 

[evltwn]

Agreed!

Hmmm....rediculous gun safety rules...I agree, they can and often do get in the way of someones right to burn through magazines...whatever are they thinking?

You may well be better off going off in the woods and do whatever you like...just let me know the general area, so I can avoid it...and you.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

I just treat every shot as if it is a first shot and make the best of it. I always tell people that (outside of military engagements) that if they think they are going to be shooting the way they do at a range in a SD situation they are probably going to be sorely disappointed any way.

I think this is great news. If shooting ranges dont aid in real world training practice, then the millions spent on police and military shooting ranges each year are millions that could be saved. Not to mention the noise, air, and ground pollution that we can prevent. Also, the man hours that spent training at the range could be spent doing ACTUAL training that would aid in real world scenarios.

Personally, I believe the best place to train for real world self defense engagements is at home, late at night, in front of a mirror.

 

[coctailer]

I got asked by someone the other day why I was strumming my fingers on my non-shooting hand between shots (as well as releasing the trigger fully).

I shoot at a range that has a rule that states no rapid fire is allowed. In fact I got warned once that I would be ejected because I was not allowing a full second to pass between shots. I have found that the only way I can make myself shoot at the right rate is to establish a little pattern of movement. Because of this I reset the fingers on my non-shooting hand (and sometime release the trigger fully) between each shot. It slows me down and keeps me within the rules.

Does anyone else have trouble abiding by the "no rapid fire" rules at the range? Do you have to do anything special to control yourself?

Sounds like "Clark Rifles Syndrome"

This is why I joined Tri-County Gun Club even when I lived in Vancouver. Well worth the drive.

To answer the question. Yes I do have trouble abiding to bad rules that are administered by people with a fractional shooting experience.

 

[Misterbill]

Hmmm....rediculous gun safety rules...I agree, they can and often do get in the way of someones right to burn through magazines...whatever are they thinking?

You may well be better off going off in the woods and do whatever you like...just let me know the general area, so I can avoid it...and you.

Ever shoot IDPA or IPSC? How about tactical rifle? One-second rules have nothing to do with safety and everything to do with irrational fear. Maybe you can explain how me firing my rifle in rapid-fire drills, putting 3 rounds in a 4-inch group in about a second is inherently unsafe? Or perhaps you can explain why every training academy in the country teaches you to shoot as rapidly AND accurately as possible, including double-taps?

As long as the gun is pointed in a safe direction, where is the safety concern?

 

[coctailer]

Ever shoot IDPA or IPSC? How about tactical rifle? One-second rules have nothing to do with safety and everything to do with irrational fear. Maybe you can explain how me firing my rifle in rapid-fire drills, putting 3 rounds in a 4-inch group in about a second is inherently unsafe? Or perhaps you can explain why every training academy in the country teaches you to shoot as rapidly AND accurately as possible, including double-taps?

As long as the gun is pointed in a safe direction, where is the safety concern?

It sounds scary.

 

[Redcap]

Hmmm....rediculous gun safety rules...I agree, they can and often do get in the way of someones right to burn through magazines...whatever are they thinking?

You may well be better off going off in the woods and do whatever you like...just let me know the general area, so I can avoid it...and you.

No problem. I generally shoot on my own property so I can avoid morons like yourself.

 

[Mark W.]

would assume if you told the range that you will be glad to cover the replacement cost of hangers stands and such along with their insurance costs. They would be glad to let you set the rules.

Personally I have no problem following the rules. makes life very easy.

 

[evltwn]

Wow.....so nice of you to insult one which whom you disagree....really bolsters your argument. But lets stick to facts, shall we? The original question was range safety rules disallowing rapid fire (more than one a second, I believe.) It COULD be that the intention was to protect everyone on the range by creating rules of this nature. For those of you who disagree, there are several options.

The first, is of course, to join IDPA, (which I did years ago) to hone your real world tactical skills. There, rapid fire and accuracy are rewarded by fastest time, most accurate runs. These are scenarios closely supervised by a range officer one on one, with others waiting to participate far behind the firing line. See the difference than shooting at a range side by side?

The second choice is to go into the woods and do what you wish. However, the opportunity to practice with (and perhaps learn from others would be lost.)

The third choice is to simply label someone with a different opinion some name. How terribly mature.

Good shooting. Be safe.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

The first, is of course, to join IDPA, (which I did years ago) to hone your real world tactical skills. There, rapid fire and accuracy are rewarded by fastest time, most accurate runs. These are scenarios closely supervised by a range officer one on one, with others waiting to participate far behind the firing line. See the difference than shooting at a range side by side?

The second choice is to go into the woods and do what you wish. However, the opportunity to practice with (and perhaps learn from others would be lost.)

The third choice is to simply label someone with a different opinion some name. How terribly mature.

The fourth choice is to find a range without a silly one second rule. Such as Izzak Walton
I use the same pistol pits that IDPA is shot on, practice the same drills, and hone the same skills. Only without the crowds.

Range practice can be as in depth or as menial as you allow it to be.
Relegating all range experience to slow fire side by side shooting is an example of a narrow minded defeatist attitude.

 

[Riot]

Just out of curiosity what do you consider "real world training?"

Are you seeing a lot of rapid fire gun battles outside of military engagements?

Before I comment further, I realize that most gun battles end within the first two shots and are within seven feet....having said that why would you ever knock anyone for doing "rapid-fire engagement drills"? You have no idea what you are going to do in a shooting situation or even what that situation will be! There are hundreds of incidents of people "snapping" and going on shooting sprees.

So instead of knocking the guy for dumping a mag on the range, why not just say you don't feel as if you need to train that way?


Bah, I don't know why I try sometimes....you already sound like the guy that only leaves his gun in his car or at home since that's only when you think you'll need it.

If Shooter98 wants to practice hostage rescue, SWAT entry, mozambique drills or distance shooting- let him! Who the heck are you to criticize anyone else's training methods? If their targets look like someone was out on the range with a 12 gauge shotgun, then I'd say something; otherwise I guess you and your range buddies can brag about who's Kimber 1911 looks prettier.

 

[Buddhalux]

That's why I asked him how many military engagements he saw inside of a FOB and got no answer because he doesn't really know, he wasn't a door kicker.

 

[Misterbill]

No one stepping up for this ridiculous rule has yet made a coherent argument for it. If you're firing over the berm or missing the bullet trap, that's unsafe. And firing rate has nothing to do with it. Your lack of care is the issue. Easily remedied, one warning and then a ban. I've been a member of gun clubs where full-auto happens all the time. In 50 years there was never a problem except some FUDDs who didn't like it. We told them to get over it and they left. Good riddance.

I don't care what you're doing with your gun as long as it doesn't compromise safety or damage the facility. It's just none of my darned business. Why anyone would put up with random FUDDery is beyond me. The guys piping up in defense of one-per-second rules remind me of Bill "No one needs more than 10 rounds" Ruger. What are you so afraid of?

 

[Riot]

No one stepping up for this ridiculous rule has yet made a coherent argument for it. If you're firing over the berm or missing the bullet trap, that's unsafe. And firing rate has nothing to do with it. Your lack of care is the issue. Easily remedied, one warning and then a ban. I've been a member of gun clubs where full-auto happens all the time. In 50 years there was never a problem except some FUDDs who didn't like it. We told them to get over it and they left. Good riddance.

I don't care what you're doing with your gun as long as it doesn't compromise safety or damage the facility. It's just none of my darned business. Why anyone would put up with random FUDDery is beyond me. The guys piping up in defense of one-per-second rules remind me of Bill "No one needs more than 10 rounds" Ruger. What are you so afraid of?

They have rules like this because gun noobs that watch too much YouTube and action movies try to dump double digit rounds at a target 50 yards out on 4x4 wooden stilts. They are going to hit the ground and/or the wood (costing the range money). So what is the cure? Make a rule that forces everyone to suffer for the actions of a few knuckleheads versus confronting the morons and telling them to shoot safe or don't come back.

 

[coctailer]

They have rules like this because gun noobs that watch too much YouTube and action movies try to dump double digit rounds at a target 50 yards out on 4x4 wooden stilts. They are going to hit the ground and/or the wood (costing the range money). So what is the cure? Make a rule that forces everyone to suffer for the actions of a few knuckleheads versus confronting the morons and telling them to shoot safe or don't come back.

I will submit that the 1 second rule is arbitrary.
1 second may be waaaaay too fast for some shooters, and waaay too slow for others.

Clubs need to instruct Range Officers to evaluate individuals.
Surely Jerry Miculek wouldn't need to abide by the 1 second rule. There are shooters in the area that are of similar caliber (just not as famous)

A nervous housewife shooting for the first time may be very dangerous if she was shooting 1 round per second.

The rule is set for someones estimate of a safe time per round. What about 1/2 of a second? 1.5 seconds?

A global time for all shooters is ridiculous.

 

[Riot]

A global time for all shooters is ridiculous.

Agreed, it's like saying nobody can have red hats because someone with a red hat decided to do something stupid.

 

[evltwn]

Nice to see the many different views posted on the subject. May your enjoyment of the shooting sports bring you what you "aim for". Sorry, couldn't resist.