Why I don't like the NRA...

[TheLews]

I like this idea

I like it too. I would so back up a bill that proposed it as law. Heck it's worth a try.

 

[TheLews]

Anyone that declares their house, place of business or any area a "gun free zone", they should be held liable for my safety. You heard it right...if I can legally carry a firearm in my state, but you force me to disarm and I become a victim, I (or my loved ones) should be able to sue you for Vicarious Liability or Wrongful Death.

Oops sorry I meant to add this part in as well.

 

[EUGENE the REALTOR]

Anyone that declares their house, place of business or any area a "gun free zone", they should be held liable for my safety. You heard it right...if I can legally carry a firearm in my state, but you force me to disarm and I become a victim, I (or my loved ones) should be able to sue you for Vicarious Liability or Wrongful Death.

Oops sorry I meant to add this part in as well.

I don't think I've ever been forced into anyone's home or place of business before. I also think I have the right to choose who comes into my house. Whether it's because they're carrying a gun or I just don't like the color of their shirt. I don't really see the logic in your statement.

 

[bersaguy]

I hate to see debates and disparaging comments on a firearms forum aimed at any one of the national organizations that are defending our second amendment rights. I am an NRA Life member and proud of it. Also a member of GOA for at least the last 10 years.

The latest statistics that I saw show something like 80 million gun owners in the US and approx. 4-5million NRA members. How anyone can be a firearms owner in the US and not an NRA member is beyond me. I guess it always comes down to the few.

For those too young to remember, the NRA was one of the leading forces in the Republican takeover of congress in 1994 as a result of the Clinton gun ban. They also provide training for Range Officers, provide legal support for ranges that are constantly under attack by frivolous lawsuits, sponsor matches at the regional and national level, publish a couple of really good (if you are interested in firearms) monthly magazines etc. etc.

As far as I know, America is still a free country so if you don't want to join the NRA that is your choice. But as I learned as a little boy, "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all."

 

[swoop]

I'll bet Australia and the Britts wish they would have had a NRA. If you are not a member you should really think about it. Without the work that they have done over the years, you may not have those AR's in the safe or hi cap autoloader on your belt. Sure they have some of the faults of any large organization,but who else is big enough to make a difference in DC? Cheap insurance IMO...I also support the smaller organizations.

 

[SonicBlue03]

I hate to see debates and disparaging comments on a firearms forum aimed at any one of the national organizations that are defending our second amendment rights. I am an NRA Life member and proud of it. Also a member of GOA for at least the last 10 years.

The latest statistics that I saw show something like 80 million gun owners in the US and approx. 4-5million NRA members. How anyone can be a firearms owner in the US and not an NRA member is beyond me. I guess it always comes down to the few.

For those too young to remember, the NRA was one of the leading forces in the Republican takeover of congress in 1994 as a result of the Clinton gun ban. They also provide training for Range Officers, provide legal support for ranges that are constantly under attack by frivolous lawsuits, sponsor matches at the regional and national level, publish a couple of really good (if you are interested in firearms) monthly magazines etc. etc.

As far as I know, America is still a free country so if you don't want to join the NRA that is your choice. But as I learned as a little boy, "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all."

The NRA has provided some valuable resources and support to gun owners during its existence. The youth gun safety education courses are - by far - one of the biggest value-adds in responsible gun handling and ownership that they've provided.

I remember 1994 and was a member of the NRA during that time. I also remember the "jack-booted thug" letter that I think I probably still have somewhere in a box from LaPierre. That was enough for me to not renew my membership and not look back. Federal agents, like local police, are hired to enforce the laws or policies their departments are responsible to uphold. Villifying them as a group crossed personal lines with me.

I know they've softened their position and even recall the apology for "the misunderstanding" that the letter caused. But having had family and friends in federal service during that time, it was enough that I haven't revisited rejoining. I may in time, especially as the shooting bug has been coming back stronger over the past three years and I'll evaluate the NRA's public positions and what they're doing in terms of education and outreach for those less educated about firearms. If they're still doing a lot of that work I could see myself donating funds to those programs on a regular basis.

I agree with you in that it's a choice that everyone has a right to make. I respect the right of those who choose to steadfastly stand by the org, as well as those who opt not to.

 

[Jaybo]

I'll bet Australia and the Britts wish they would have had a NRA

Don't they have the IRA??? They deal with firearms right????

 

[WhyteCheddar]

If we didn't have the NRA we would probably of lost our gun rights as we know them today a long long time ago.
If you want to run down the NRA that's fine. No organization of any size is perfect, but the NRA does more to hold back the massive (in numbers and funding) anti gun lobby than any other organization out there.
If there are aspects to the NRA that you don't like then get involved and work for the changes you prefer.

 

[fingolfen]

The last post from riot kind of sums up why i don't give money to non profits.




Why do i want to pay someone's salary?

I do not like lobbying, i do not want to support it.

There really is a true disconnect between the american people and it's government.

Especially when people think the way to have their voices heard is to throw money to any group.

1) The NRA isn't technically a not for profit organization.

2) That's the WAY THINGS ARE DONE in Washington under the current system. If you "take your ball and go home", that system will still continue to make laws that we all have to live with. Read that again. Your options are therefore limited at this point - you can try to change the system (good luck!), but until you do if you don't want your rights stripped from you, you have to play the game under its current rules.

 

[swoop]

Don't they have the IRA??? They deal with firearms right????

Yes the IRA forgot about those guys.

 

[Riot]

What's the NRA doing to preserve your gun rights???

McDonald v. Chicago - there was also an NRA v. Chicago, but McDonald was the one chosen to go forward - case to get the Second Amendment incorporated under the 14th. PIVOTAL case...

Filed a brief - overwhelming bipartisan majority of the members of Congress and Senate have signed it...

<broken link removed>

How's that for starters???

Second Amendment Foundation is also strongly supporting the effort on McDonald.

GOA's still wringing its hands over the Health Care debate and hasn't said "boo" about McDonald that I've seen...

... and for the record...

Lifetime member of NRA
Lifetime member of GOA
Regularly support OFF and Second Amendment Foundation

You're missing my point...even those cases you are citing are defensive. How about introducing bills FOR gun rights instead of trying to counter what they anti-gunners have done?

Well, for starters, if we didn't have any gun laws then we wouldn't need to keep sending them any money now would we? If we were all fine and dandy and able to shoot our guns without any registration or regulation, we wouldn't donate a dime to these causes to "fight for our 2nd Amendment rights". So again, I ask- what have they done for us?

They do just enough to stay rich, that's what they do...if you can't see that then I'm sorry for you.

 

[AGCR]

The main problem with the NRA is their decades of associating gun rights with every obnoxious right wing social cause under the sun. Wayne LaPierre can hardly write two sentences without going off against feminism, animal rights activism or social justice advocates. Odd considering every girl I know who shoots considers themselves a feminist. No wonder whenever I talk about gun issues with people, as soon as I distance myself from the NRA, they're more willing to listen and give me a chance. Just 2 days ago I was talking to a hippy looking girl downtown who was interested in learning to shoot but completely put off by the NRA.
I did join the GOA, but after all their hysterical mailings, they seem just as bad if not worse. I won't be renewing.
Conversely, I've had quite a good relationship with OFF over the years and shared a couple pints of beer with one of their outreach workers just last week. Good people.

 

[fred c. dobbs]

How much pressure will the government need to apply to NRA, and GOA to get a list of every member for future confiscation. very little ???

will sites like this rollover without a whimper and give everyone of us away. Say anything negative here about OBAMA and one of the mods will chastise you in a heartbeat, how many members actually voted for that clown, many did , it is so pathetic, i puck at the thought.

 

[raindog]

How much pressure will the government need to apply to NRA, and GOA to get a list of every member for future confiscation. very little ???

Wait a moment, while I adjust my tin foil hat...

will sites like this rollover without a whimper and give everyone of us away. Say anything negative here about OBAMA and one of the mods will chastise you in a heartbeat, how many members actually voted for that clown, many did , it is so pathetic, i puck at the thought.

That has not been my experience here on NWFA. I have made negative comments about BHO and never seen them vanish or been chastised (disagreed with by other posters, perhaps, but that's what it's all about!)

But hey, let's test the theory...

Attention all moderators: I think Obama is a disagrace, I didn't vote for him, and I'd be happy to see him impeached. I think he's unqualified for the office, is a socialist at heart, hates America, and will accelerate our country's fall from greatness.

Now if this post isn't here tomorrow, perhaps you'll have something ;-)

 

[ZeroRing]

How much pressure will the government need to apply to NRA, and GOA to get a list of every member for future confiscation. very little ???

will sites like this rollover without a whimper and give everyone of us away. Say anything negative here about OBAMA and one of the mods will chastise you in a heartbeat, how many members actually voted for that clown, many did , it is so pathetic, i puck at the thought.

Keep the language civil and make sure if your post is "political" in nature it is related to firearms (and posted in the correct section) and generally you won't run into any issues.

Violate the rules however and don't be surprise if you get a friendly WARNING reminding you of this fact. Push the issue further and yes, you do stand a strong chance of earning yourself an infraction or ban.

It's all up to the members to decide how they want to behave... or not.

 

[PosterGuy]

After being encouraged by me, my girlfriend suggested exactly this at her work place. She's an engineer for a small company {<20 employees} who's office manager had a fit on learning she {girlfriend} was carrying at work. The office manger tried really hard to establish a no firearms office policy but was unsuccessful partly due to my supplying local ccw laws and links {courtesy of the NRA} to stories on the Oklahoma case of a company being sued for firing employees who had guns in their cars. And it probably didn't hurt that the CEO from California was fired and replace by a guy fron Texas

Actually, the employer was correct but you were able to persuade him otherwise. Concealed carry and firearms in your vehicle are two seperate issues. The courts that decided these cases determined that the interior of a persons vehicle is their own private property, regardless of where the vehicle is. So, the gun(s) are not on company property, they are on your own private property and not subject to your employers rules. Concealed carry is different. You are then in possession of a firearm on somebody elses property and subject to their requirements. Do you have a right to carry? Yes. Does your employer have the right to fire you for any or no reason at all? Yes.

Personally, if owned a business and an employee attempted to dictate to me how I was going to run MY OWN BUSINESS, I would likely fire them quickly. That being said, I would have no problem with a responsible individual carrying at work.

 

[Gunner3456]

Here's an email I just sent to Larry Potterfield, CEO of MidwayUSA, above an email I just sent to his customer service department. Some personal info has been deleted.

OK, maybe I'm a bit OCD this morning.

---------------------------

Dear Mr. Potterfield,

This is just FYI. I sent the email below to your customer service dept. Please don't send me a sales pitch about why I should support the NRA &#8211; I think those decisions are personal. I just wanted you to know that I wish your site didn't default to contributing to the NRA. I think customers should have to deliberately check a box to contribute rather than getting surprised.

When I saw my final checkout statement, I truly felt cheated by Midway. I'm sure your people are fixing my bill, but I believe you should change your web site.

Thanks for listening,

Cliff

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:09 AM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: NRA contributions

Hi,

I'm not happy. My final checkout bill shows a contribution to the NRA of $.89 (89 cents.) Without going on a rant about bloated self serving lobbying groups, let me just say that I hate the NRA!! There are better groups out there!!

I know I'm supposed to watch as I check out, but I was busy being sure that my name was exactly as on the credit card, that my address was correct, that the order was being shipped to my home, that I was choosing the shipping method I wanted, that I typed my CC# and pin correctly etc. etc.

Your site caused my order to default to contributing.

It think your site should default to NOT contributing, and make me check a box TO contribute.

I feel fooled and cheated by Midway. It's the principle, not the amount.

I did not knowingly authorize that contribution, I never saw where I authorized it, and I believe you should remove it and change the format of your site while you're at it.

Please credit my account for 89 cents. If you know a way to get the NRA to give me 89 cents, that will work too!!!!

Thank you.

Cliff

Customer #: 102569816
Invoice #: 10300317
Invoice Date: 12/8/2009

Payment Method: AMEX 1006

182183
Remington Golden Saber Bullets 40 S&W, 10mm Auto (400 Diameter) 165 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point Box of 500 (Bulk Packaged)

1
$102.99
$102.99

381994
Forster Classic, Original, Power Case Trimmer Pilot #400, 40 Caliber, 10mm (400 Diameter)

1
$4.39
$4.39

542471
Forster Original, Power Case Trimmer Outside Neck Turner Pilot, 35 Caliber, 9mm (358 Diameter)

1
$7.59
$7.59

614276
Forster Original Case Trimmer Kit

1
$74.99
$74.99

Item Total:
$189.96

Postage, Handling & Insurance:
$16.15

Special Handling:
$0.00

Sales Tax:
$0.00

Adjustments:
- $0.00

NRA "Round-Up" Contribution:
$0.89


Grand Total:
$207.0

 

[fingolfen]

You're missing my point...even those cases you are citing are defensive. How about introducing bills FOR gun rights instead of trying to counter what they anti-gunners have done?

Well, for starters, if we didn't have any gun laws then we wouldn't need to keep sending them any money now would we? If we were all fine and dandy and able to shoot our guns without any registration or regulation, we wouldn't donate a dime to these causes to "fight for our 2nd Amendment rights". So again, I ask- what have they done for us?

They do just enough to stay rich, that's what they do...if you can't see that then I'm sorry for you.

The NRA is not a member of Congress - it therefore can't initiate bills on its own. However, their support for several bills which have been submitted by pro-Second Amendment Senators and Representatives is a matter of public record.

As for gun laws - the NRA wasn't the group that started infringing on our rights. Those in power have always sought to limit the ability of those they rule over to fight back. However as gun laws became more onerous, the NRA was one of the first groups to actually fight back... and continues to do so today. They're the only group the left actually fears.

... if you can't see that, then I feel sorry for you...

 

[bersaguy]

Updated December 12, 2009
Several States Ease Restrictions on Gun Laws

AP

In many states across the United States, it's getting easier to carry a gun -- and many say it's the result of a campaign by the National Rifle Association.


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In many states across the United States, it's getting easier to carry a gun -- and many say it's the result of a campaign by the National Rifle Association.

A nationwide review by The Associated Press found that over the last two years, 24 states, mostly in the South and West, have passed 47 new laws loosening gun restrictions.

Among other things, legislatures have allowed firearms to be carried in cars, made it illegal to ask job candidates whether they own a gun, and expanded agreements that make permits to carry handguns in one state valid in another.

The trend is attributed in large part to a push by the NRA. The NRA, the leading gun-owners lobby in the U.S. which for years has blocked attempts in Washington to tighten firearms laws, has ramped up its efforts at the state level to chip away at gun restrictions.

"This is all a coordinated approach to respect that human, God-given right of self defense by law-abiding Americans," says Chris W. Cox, the NRA's chief lobbyist. "We'll rest when all 50 states allow and respect the right of law-abiding people to defend themselves from criminal attack."

Tennessee and Montana, for example, have passed laws that exempt weapons made and owned in-state from federal restrictions.

Tennessee is the home to Barrett Firearms Manufacturing, the maker of a .50-caliber shoulder-fired rifle that the company says can shoot bullets up to 5 miles (8 kilometers). The rifle is banned in California.

There have been gun-friendly law changes in other states. Arizona, Florida, Louisiana and Utah have made it illegal for businesses to bar their employees from storing guns in cars parked on company lots. Some states have made handgun permit information confidential and others have allowed handgun permits to be issued to people who have had their felony convictions expunged or their full civil rights restored.

The AP compiled the data on new laws from groups ranging from the Legal Community Against Violence, which advocates gun control, to the NRA.

Public attitudes toward gun control have shifted strongly over the past 50 years, according to Gallup polling. In 1959, 60 percent of respondents said they favored a ban on handguns except for "police and other authorized persons." Gallup's most recent annual crime survey in October found 71 percent opposed such a ban.

The NRA boasts that almost all states grant handgun permits to people with clean criminal and psychological records. In 1987, only 10 states did. Only Wisconsin, Illinois and Washington, D.C., now prohibit carrying concealed handguns entirely.

"The NRA has a stranglehold on a lot of state legislatures," said Kristin Rand, legislative director of the Violence Policy Center, a gun control group in Washington. "They basically have convinced lawmakers they can cost them their seats, even though there's no real evidence to back that up."

Tennessee's new laws came after the Republican takeover of the General Assembly this year, but most other states that loosened restrictions didn't experience major partisan shifts.

Most of the states where the new laws were enacted have large rural populations, where support for gun rights tends to cross party lines.

While some states have tightened gun laws during the same period, the list of new restrictive laws is much shorter. In 2009 alone, more than three times as many laws were passed to make it easier on gun owners.

New Jersey's 2009 law limiting people to one handgun purchase per month is the most notable of the more-restrictive laws. Other examples this year include Maryland's ban on concealed weapons on public transit and Maine's vote to give public universities and colleges the power to regulate firearms on campus.

The most contentious of Tennessee's new gun laws was one allowing handguns in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol. It took effect in July after lawmakers overrode a veto by the governor. Last month, a Nashville judge struck down the law as unconstitutionally vague, but supporters have vowed to pass it again.

A similar Arizona law that took effect in September allows people with concealed-weapons permits to bring their guns into bars and restaurants that haven't posted signs banning them.

While Tennessee's law was in place, many bars chose not to let customers bring guns in. Likewise, more than 70 communities have opted out of allowing guns in parks.

"People go in there and start drinking and then they want to start a fight. What are they going to do if they got a gun in their hand?" said Larry Speck, 69, who works at an auto repair shop in Memphis. "I've got a gun permit and I'm not carrying mine in there, even if they have a law."

Supporters of expanding handgun rights argue that people with state-issued permits are far less likely to commit crimes, and that more lawfully armed people cause a reduction in crime.

Opponents fear that more guns could lead to more crime.

Academics are divided on the effects of liberalized handgun laws, and determining the impact is complicated by the move in several states to close handgun permit records.

A Violence Policy Center project has mined news reports to find that more than 100 people have been killed by holders of handgun-carry permits since 2007, including nine law enforcement officers. The project originally intended to list all gun crimes by permit holders, but there were too many to keep track of, Rand said.

"They shoot each other over parking spaces, at football games and at family events," Rand said. "The idea that you're making any place safer by injecting more guns is just completely contradicted by the facts."

 

[AGCR]

Link to such an article, please?

Hmmm....
Links?
I've never read anything by anyone in NRA publications against feminism. In fact, quite the contrary:huh:
My Tom Boy, Vet Tech wife, my nurse daughter, my business owner daughter in law, and thousands of WOMEN NRA Members would probably like to discuss this comment of yours further if given the chance

http://www.nrahq.org/women/
Give Elizabeth Hellmann a call at the NRA

You betcha they do, and rightly so. Animal Rights Activism is anti-hunting which is anti-gun. They make no secret that they lobby against firearms ownership in this country and against hunting.
You, as a gun owner...What's the problem?
I see from your website you endorse the following which is interesting


"AGCR supports the efforts of these organizations":

Oregon Firearms Federation (OFF)
www.oregonfirearms.org

Pink Pistols
www.pinkpistols.org

Guntards
www.guntards.net

Gun Toting Liberals
www.geocities.com/guntotingliberals

Blue Steel Democrats
www.bluesteeldemocrats.blogspot.com

The Liberal Gun Club
www.theliberalgunclub.com

The Underground Terrorist Motorcycle Cult (UTMC)
www.blackletter.org

Again... Howabout backing up your rhetoric with a link and or a reference
Google is your friend

I am more than willing to back up everything I write or say. For example, Wayne LaPierre complaining about feminism see:
LaPierre & James Baker. Shooting Straight: Telling the Truth About Guns in America. Regnery Publishing, Washington DC, 2002. p.3.
It's an aside, not a whole article. LaPierre considers women with guns an acceptable role within his idea of gender norms. Actual social equality with men, that is, "feminism" he appears not to find so appealing.
For LaPierre in a surreal diatribe against against social just activism, see the same book, p. 129.

Re. PETA. People who are anti-hunting are not automatically anti-self defense. One of my good friends here in town here is one of the girls you see chaining herself to fur store doors and she's totally pro-gun.

And regarding AGCR's associated group listing, what's so odd about them?