Why I don't like people who complain about open carry

[JumpWing]

I can't tell you how many stories I've read of an open-carrier having his weapon snatched by a criminal and turned against him.

No, wait, I can: Zero.

How about stories of an open-carrier being strategically targeted during a hold-up?

Yep: Zero.

And the number of career criminals who go to the trouble of buying a holster and carrying openly?

Again: Zero.

I have NO problem with the choice an individual makes for himself (or herself) regarding this issue. But suggesting that open carry makes a "bad impression on the gun community" is like telling a fellow Christian to not talk about God because it might upset someone.

The anti-OC crowd seem to be quick with the "what if" scenarios and woefully short on real world examples, especially considering the media will have gleefully done all the work for them. In a nation with millions of gun owners you would think there would at least be a hundred stories of "OC targeting" and "gun snatching" over the last FIFTY years... but I'll mail you a whole dollar if you can find even TEN stories.

I usually carry concealed because that's how things turned out for me, but I'll be damned if I'm going to relinquish MY OPTION to carry openly. People who BASH open carry are betraying the entire gun community by helping the enemy to erode the Right we ALL share.

But that's just my two cents.

 

[nards13]

I think that people get freaked out more because when they see someone open carry, it is a threat on a different level. They are scared that there are still people out there that have a sense of personal responsiblity. Because if you are armed then you will have the upperhand (assumed) if there is an problem.

Instead we have a country now where everyone give their power away and POLIC(Y)e officers for help... They are scare to be responsible.

I cc all the time it is more comfortable. But I dont and never will get a license to express my 2A rights in any way shape or form. License=Permission

 

[gunnoob75]

This thread went from great fun to OC/CC debate.

Irony, you're a cruel wench.

 

[biggie24420]

Well when you open carry the public views you as a criminal because they have been brain washed...... I think most of us legal gun owners know that, so no surprise there. It is entertaining for me to have to teach a cop a thing or two about the law. A lot of cops know the law but they wanna " pull rank" on you by scaring you into not doing something such as open carrying. I find it hard be believe that a peace officer wouldn't know about the city's laws, i mean HELLO...... you work there lol...... Beaverton Police don't know about beaverton's gun laws in public????? oh come on............. hahahaha

I have had Portland and Beaverton police tell me that I CAN'T open carry with my concealed license. Then I tell them about oregon state laws and they hush up and back off.......... it is a priceless look on their faces.... hahahahahah I LOVE IT
Another good thing about open carrying...... people don't come up to you and ask for a cig or change hahahahahaha i hate that...........
If you are not a dum dum, you know about laws and safety......... you know how to keep your weapon secure then you should open carry. The heck with the public or anyone who doesn't like it. But be prepared to deal with cops and idiots who like to act tough and point at you. Be prepared for traffic to slow down and look at you like god's gift to women lol and in my case have guns pulled on you by the police when you were just sitting there hahahahahaha
So in conclusion.......... you will get HATED ON.......... but to have no one come up and ask you for something and to be able to school a cop on a few laws....... well that is priceless hahahahahahahahahaha
Heck I think i'm gonna open carry today when i go out to take care of my stuff........ well it will be concealed on Tri-Met and before i go inside the bank lol

 

[MountainBear]

There needs to be an icon for BEATING A DEAD HORSE! We get it. The arguments may or may not be valid on either side, but I think after several threads, each several pages long, I think we get it. Unless someone on either side can come up with something earth shattering that we haven't heard yet, leave it be. You won't convince the other side in this case. You're shouting into the wind.
Let's look at it this way. Whether you like it or not, BOTH SIDES are pro-2nd ammendment. Just because some people carry concealed and some carry open, doesn't mean either side supports the anti-gun agenda. Lets put aside our differences inside the community and focus our efforts on defeating the anti agenda.

 

[matt_w]

Would it make the anti-OC crowd feel safer if the person also carried his CWP badge openly?

 

[wakeadrian]

There needs to be an icon for BEATING A DEAD HORSE!

Clearly other people are still wanting to throw in their opinions. If you don't, that's great, nobody is making you post in this thread.

 

[biggie24420]

Would it make the anti-OC crowd feel safer if the person also carried his CWP badge openly?

I thought about doing that with my CHL license on the side...... ID and badge lol they (the cops) be telling you your impersonating a police officer, and your not so that doesn't matter and for the rest of the brain washed public you can look like a cop to them because they will believe whatever they want and your not braking any laws hahahahahahahaha

 

[MountainBear]

Clearly other people are still wanting to throw in their opinions. If you don't, that's great, nobody is making you post in this thread.

Yes, but nobody is saying anything that hasn't been said a dozen times before. Shouldn't we put our energies towards overturning stupid gun laws and keeping new ones off the books, as opposed to arguing which side is right or wrong in the open/concealed carry debate? Or would you prefer I rehash the arguments wakejoe and I had on a thread a few months ago covering the same topics. I suppose I could pick up a stick and beat the dead horse if you're more comfortable with that...
:huh:

 

[Karma]

Yes, but nobody is saying anything that hasn't been said a dozen times before. Shouldn't we put our energies towards overturning stupid gun laws and keeping new ones off the books, as opposed to arguing which side is right or wrong in the open/concealed carry debate? Or would you prefer I rehash the arguments wakejoe and I had on a thread a few months ago covering the same topics. I suppose I could pick up a stick and beat the dead horse if you're more comfortable with that...
:huh:

As far as I am concerned you are right to a extent. The only reason I think that it is worth discussing at this point is because of those who would call the cops on people who open carry! If it was just a matter of opinion, and people were saying to each their own, that would be different. Instead we have people who are pro second amendment, as long as people exercise their rights just as they do. That is not what the second amendment is about, and if we can't hang together any better than that we are doomed to loose our "rights".

 

[wakeadrian]

As far as I am concerned you are right to a extent. The only reason I think that it is worth discussing at this point is because of those who would call the cops on people who open carry! If it was just a matter of opinion, and people were saying to each their own, that would be different. Instead we have people who are pro second amendment, as long as people exercise their rights just as they do. That is not what the second amendment is about, and if we can't hang together any better than that we are doomed to loose our "rights".

Exactly! That's why the title of the thread says people who -complain- about open carry, not people who are opposed to it.

MountainBear, if you are concerned with putting your energy toward something different, start your own thread about the issues YOU want to address.

 

[MarkSBG]

There needs to be an icon for BEATING A DEAD HORSE!

What? You mean like good ole deadhorse here?


Check out the [More] options on your emoticons. There are tons...

 

[Newcastle]

Open carry = the guy who's going to take the first shot before I sneak up behind the perp and make his head into a canoe.

 

[MountainBear]

Adrian, go some more...

Thanks, Mark...

 

[gunnoob75]

I thought debating about Open Carry was the dead horse?

If that's the case, when was she beating a dead horse?

Or is telling you not to read if you don't want to read the dead horse now?

It's hard to keep up.

 

[MountainBear]

Does it matter anymore Joe? You and I have had several debates on this topic. Don't you get tired of saying the same arguments over and over (I'm not debating the validity of them, nor am I belittling you for making them)?

Here's an idea. Have the moderators make a sticky thread. The all consuming end all be all open vs. concealed carry thread. Limit it to one thread. Keep it contained. Just an idea. It will keep it out of the rest of our hair. Granted, this thread was fairly obvious about what it was talking about. Others degenerate into a heated argument over open vs. concealed carry without starting there. I suggest giving you guys a designated place where new people can go to read all the arguments on both sides. Keep it civil, non-personal, just the facts, and let the moderators delete posts that violate that. Its an idea to keep other threads from becoming debates on why I complain about people who open carry vs why I complain about people who complain about open carry. And I'll even leave the dead horse in the corral...

 

[bugeye]

I've never seen a criminal or a wacko open-carry................

So, you can tell that just from a quick glance, or do you personally know all these folks?

I'm around armed people all the time at ranges with no worry at all, and I appreciate that they aren't worried about me. But out on the streets when I see an armed person who is not police, I'm concerned. Now think about how concerned someone who hates guns at all is going to be?

All rights have limits or we have no rights at all.

 

[Karma]

So, you can tell that just from a quick glance, or do you personally know all these folks?

I'm around armed people all the time at ranges with no worry at all, and I appreciate that they aren't worried about me. But out on the streets when I see an armed person who is not police, I'm concerned. Now think about how concerned someone who hates guns at all is going to be?

All rights have limits or we have no rights at all.

LOL. So what are the limits that you propose on our "rights"? For example, freedom of speech is limited in certain ways such as slander. Slander isn't protected by freedom of speech because it is harmful to other people. That is understandable. It would not be understandable if we chose not to allow freedom of speech for someone who chooses to express themselves on a blog for example, because we don't like it personally.


The right to bear arms is no different. We don't allow people to shoot others, because it would of course be harmful to another person. That is a reasonable limit on our right. Now tell me how someone using a different method of carrying their weapon is harmful to you in any way at all!

The only people who we need to fear carrying a gun are criminals! The likelihood of a criminal open carrying is none! They are going to slip it in their pants or carry concealed so that they don't draw attention of any kind. I guess it is hard for some to grasp the fact that criminals don't follow laws! They don't care if they don't have the proper license to carry concealed! They probably wouldn't be able to legally own a gun anyhow! I would love someone to show me examples of criminals walking into a place to shoot it up, and pulling their glock out of their tactical leg holster! LOL.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

 

[bugeye]

LOL. So what are the limits that you propose on our "rights"? For example, freedom of speech is limited in certain ways such as slander. Slander isn't protected by freedom of speech because it is harmful to other people. That is understandable. It would not be understandable if we chose not to allow freedom of speech for someone who chooses to express themselves on a blog for example, because we don't like it personally.


The right to bear arms is no different. We don't allow people to shoot others, because it would of course be harmful to another person. That is a reasonable limit on our right. Now tell me how someone using a different method of carrying their weapon is harmful to you in any way at all!

The only people who we need to fear carrying a gun are criminals! The likelihood of a criminal open carrying is none! They are going to slip it in their pants or carry concealed so that they don't draw attention of any kind. I guess it is hard for some to grasp the fact that criminals don't follow laws! They don't care if they don't have the proper license to carry concealed! They probably wouldn't be able to legally own a gun anyhow! I would love someone to show me examples of criminals walking into a place to shoot it up, and pulling their glock out of their tactical leg holster! LOL.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Good points!

As for your harm argument, creating a situation where someone feels unsafe, or has to take extra care to assure a safe condition, is doing them harm. For example suppose I'm a school bus driver responsible for the children in my care, and in heavy traffic. I see someone displaying a weapon on their person. I then have a duty to check it out and must take attention away from my driving. In so doing aren't I putting others at risk of harm? OK, this is an edgy case but examining these sorts of hypothetical situations comes up in the supreme court all the time where they try and find the limits.

As to your criminal argument, they could have majored in crazy and just minored in criminal (not an unusual situation I suspect). Also, it seem unreasonable to expect that a person should be able to make such a statistical leap to so easily assure themselves of being safe.

The law establishes the limits, and I am not in charge, but if one in 100 people did open carry on a regular basis as a demonstration, I betcha it would be made illegal pretty fast. I can see the media now, interviewing the bloody bus driver with the screaming kids in the background.

Laws come and go, and so do some amendments, like prohibition, put in by the 18th and repealed by the 21st after 14 years.
The best way to keep a right is to keep it under wraps.

 

[Karma]

Good points!

As for your harm argument, creating a situation where someone feels unsafe, or has to take extra care to assure a safe condition, is doing them harm. For example suppose I'm a school bus driver responsible for the children in my care, and in heavy traffic. I see someone displaying a weapon on their person. I then have a duty to check it out and must take attention away from my driving. In so doing aren't I putting others at risk of harm? OK, this is an edgy case but examining these sorts of hypothetical situations comes up in the supreme court all the time where they try and find the limits.

As to your criminal argument, they could have majored in crazy and just minored in criminal (not an unusual situation I suspect). Also, it seem unreasonable to expect that a person should be able to make such a statistical leap to so easily assure themselves of being safe.

The law establishes the limits, and I am not in charge, but if one in 100 people did open carry on a regular basis as a demonstration, I betcha it would be made illegal pretty fast. I can see the media now, interviewing the bloody bus driver with the screaming kids in the background.

Laws come and go, and so do some amendments, like prohibition, put in by the 18th and repealed by the 21st after 14 years.
The best way to keep a right is to keep it under wraps.

Wow. That was insightful and well thought out. Of course I could say that to a paranoid person, a guy walking down the road with a fork may also be seen as a plausible threat, creating a situation that you would have to "take extra care to assure a safe condition". I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but in life there is no way to "assure a safe condition". Life is full of risks and unscrupulous people. Of course it is proven that the more of us armed folks there are, the safer we are as a society.

As far as I know, a person is not "displaying a weapon" when it is in a holster on their person anymore than they are displaying a weapon when they have a knife in a sheath.They are being law abiding citizens and exercising their rights as the law dictates, and helping to make society a safer place in my opinion.

I can't believe that I am having this conversation with pro gun people. lol. I am glad that I am not on a anti gun site! Here is the logic as I am hearing it. You as a person are safer when a guy walks by you and you don't know that he is carrying a weapon, than you would be when he has his weapon holstered and in plain view? Is that what I am getting? Or is it that when you see a person with a gun, he is automatically a bad person or a criminal? I thought that is the stereotype that we are fighting to get rid of. Or do you somehow jump to the conclusion that if he has his gun concealed that he is licensed to do so and therefore no threat at all? I don't get it I guess. I am kind of a simple guy though so I hope you will forgive me.

If I saw a guy run into a building full of people with his gun drawn, you better believe that I am going to have a problem with it. When I see a fellow gun owner exercising his right to bear arms and it most basic form, I am not assuming that he is a gun nut, a crazy, a loon, or a criminal. That is a jump that I am not willing to make. In fact, I would be more suspicious of you carrying a concealed handgun that I caught a glimpse of than I would by someone open carrying.

And finally, the last thing to address in my rambling. As far as I am concerned, you don't have a "right" if you have to exercise it "under wraps". We are not talking prohibition. There was no inalienable right to get drunk in the bill of rights. I would argue that the best way to keep a right is to openly and hostilely exercise it, and fight to keep it. While some of you decide to exercise your "rights" without people knowing you are doing so, I for one, will do all we can to keep all of our rights safe from those who mean to take them.

I wonder where we would be now if our founding fathers would have established our new nation in secrecy, and never bothered to fight for it?