Why gun control is dead

[3MTA3]

Their democrat masters? And here I thought they were both puppets. Tell me, what happened that led you to believe that the democratic leaders are intelligent enough to be the ones pulling the strings?

Oregon GOP leadership is fat and happy with their smaller slice of the pie. They have achieved a form of detant with the Democrats and are satisfied with their lesser role. It's not that the Democrats are so smart - it's that the GOP is lazy and complacent.

 

[Libertas7]

Oregon GOP leadership is fat and happy with their smaller slice of the pie. They have achieved a form of detant with the Democrats and are satisfied with their lesser role. It's not that the Democrats are so smart - it's that the GOP is lazy and complacent.

So if I'm understanding right, you are saying that the democrats are more ambitious which allows them to persuade at lest some of the republicans to do things that are helpful to the dems, and which by default would be unhelpful to the GOP, if in fact they are different "sides". That seems a little cunning to me, though I can see some examples where you might get that idea. I still believe they're both puppets.

 

[Lilhigbee]

And don't forget that this election for Governor was only for the remaining 2 years on Kitzhaber's 4th term, so we'll be voting on a Gov again in just 2 years. Hopefully we can get a stronger candidate this time. Either that, or something runs Gov Kate out of office and Richardson becomes Gov by default

At the risk of derailing the thread a bit, can anyone tell me why there was basically NO campaigning from Bud Pierce and the Republicans against Dingbat?? Surely an unelected incumbent running to finish out a disgraced Democrat's term is the weakest the Dems are likely to be for that office anytime soon. I thought it was the perfect opportunity to throw everything they could at getting Pierce elected, yet I only saw two or three signs, no bumper stickers or other propaganda for him. And the signs were in what I would consider fairly conservative areas, i.e. Canby. They knew they couldn't win enough seats in the legislature to make a difference, why not focus on the most important position they could win?? The Dems must have considered it a shoe-in because I didn't see any support for IT at all. If I were the tin-foil hat type I might think that there was an agreement to just let it be. As far as the OP goes, I think gun control is far from dead for those of us in the PNW. Only four states in the Union have Dem control of both houses and governorship; WA, OR, CA, NV. Things do not look good for the left coast.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

For me the 'article' was barking at straw men, and proved just about nothing.

Let's not conveniently forget: The pres elect was in favor of an AWB before changing parties. This is a person who has many times contradicted himself in the same speech, much less the same week.

The next elections, two short years from now will produce changes. It always happens. Here's a fact: the R's have had all three, the House, Senate, and Presidency TWICE since 1945. The D's have had that supermajority 11 times.

Are we to relax in the knowledge that the R's will have it forevermore, and the ideologues who have, for most of their lives believed that additional laws (which didn't work before) should be abandoned? Have they seen the light, do ya think? That's not how the conversation went at Thanksgiving.

Only thing of which I am sure, is the practice of divisiveness in which we routinely denigrate people as being stupid because they disagree with us (or because they belong to a "side") is very likely to bring the ruination of the Republic.

So long as a person is determined to focus on "sides" and agree or disagree only because of allegiance to a "side" then that person is going to miss the bus every time.

We need to deal with ideas on their own merits, and stop living in a comfort bubble of 100% certainty that Everything They Know Is Wrong.

For my part of it, I see this as the tide goes in, the tide goes out.

 

[etrain16]

At the risk of derailing the thread a bit, can anyone tell me why there was basically NO campaigning from Bud Pierce and the Republicans against Dingbat?? Surely an unelected incumbent running to finish out a disgraced Democrat's term is the weakest the Dems are likely to be for that office anytime soon. I thought it was the perfect opportunity to throw everything they could at getting Pierce elected, yet I only saw two or three signs, no bumper stickers or other propaganda for him. And the signs were in what I would consider fairly conservative areas, i.e. Canby. They knew they couldn't win enough seats in the legislature to make a difference, why not focus on the most important position they could win?? The Dems must have considered it a shoe-in because I didn't see any support for IT at all. If I were the tin-foil hat type I might think that there was an agreement to just let it be. As far as the OP goes, I think gun control is far from dead for those of us in the PNW. Only four states in the Union have Dem control of both houses and governorship; WA, OR, CA, NV. Things do not look good for the left coast.

I was wondering the same thing - hardly a squeak from Pierce, only a few last minute TV ads I saw. They should have really gone after her, and her predecessor's record - they should have done what Trump did with Hillary: tying her to the policies of Obama - they should have tied Kate to Kitzhaber - the financial disaster that was the Oregon Health Plan, his dishonesty and that of his consort. I honestly have no idea what the Republican leadership is thinking here in Oregon, they don't have the will to really fight. It's interesting, when you look at the final numbers (latest I could find):

Brown: 951,258 (50.6%)
Pierce: 819,857 (43.6%)
Thomason: 45,397
Foster: 42,769
Auer: 18,522
Write-In: 3,211

One thing you can see is if you combine all the votes not cast for Brown, you get 929,756 or 49.4% to Brown's 50.6% What I think is interesting about these results, other than it shows how fractured our state is in terms of an ideal candidate, is that Brown barely won a majority vote. Certainly she beat Pierce, but only by 7%, and he being a relative unknown. If the remaining votes had rallied around a single candidate, she may have been able to be beaten. In 2014, Richardson came even closer to beating Kitzhaber, who barely squeaked out the win. What I see in these numbers is that half of Oregonians were not happy with Brown, and she's had the past 2 years to make her case. I think Pierce was the wrong candidate, an outsider who many Oregonians didn't know going into this election. Honestly, if Richardson had run again, I think he would have won. Maybe Alley could have pulled it off too. Who knows, maybe Richardson will parlay his SOS win into another Gov run in 2018 - I guess we'll see.

Fact remains that opposition leadership to the Democrats in Oregon is weak, disorganized and, I think, really not in it to win it. I don't know if they really just don't care or if as @3MTA3 said, they're happy just living with the status quo as the 2nd in command, content to beg for table scraps.

I don't know the solution, but I think the votes are there to unseat them, but the game plan has to change seriously if that's going to happen.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Simply put , gun control will never die.
There are just too many folks out there who:
Do not want you to have a gun , or a style of gun.
Who want to limit magazine capacity.
Who want you to have a given amount of ammo or even type of ammo etc ...

Keep tabs on who votes for what , vote for pro gun issues , go out of your way to be a better citizen
( help break that media stereotype ) , use facts and logic not emotion when discussing firearms.
These are all things we can to do to help control "gun control".
Andy

 

[wired]

If we were to repeal the 19th amendment we wouldn't be having this conversation. Just saying.

 

[thorborg]

"Waiting to see what the NRA is going to do for us;" Says one.
I view this as motivationally oblique. As defeatist attitudes go, it could be a motto.
Make no mistake, I believe in and support the NRA, but they are not the end all answer, albeit an effective part of the machine.
Wait for the tug on the fishing line, or the weather to change.
Patriots, activist or just anyone truly wanting anything, pursue and engage.
No, one, organization, or man, will lift this weight off our heads.
If you can't do, then support; money, writing, phone calls, enlist others, encourage, vote.
Regularly; daily, weekly, monthly at the least.
Waiting is for losers whether Constitutional rights, house, new car, job, whatever!
Don't wait! Keep going till you succeed.
(No offense intended to the original poster of the statement)

 

[coyote223]

Simply put , gun control will never die.
There are just too many folks out there who:
Do not want you to have a gun , or a style of gun.
Who want to limit magazine capacity.
Who want you to have a given amount of ammo or even type of ammo etc ...

Keep tabs on who votes for what , vote for pro gun issues , go out of your way to be a better citizen
( help break that media stereotype ) , use facts and logic not emotion when discussing firearms.
These are all things we can to do to help control "gun control".
Andy

And there is too much money to be had. Look how many gun control groups there are, raking in the cash. Uncle fester looked at the Brady model and said, bam, I have a cash cow I can pimp out and rake the cash in with,,,

 

[PaulB47]

I think it would be dangerous and might I say idiotic to believe that the government would ever stop trying to control guns.

Nobody's saying that. I'm saying, it's not working.

Clearly, it is in the interest of the ruling class to have disarmed peons. That will never change.

 

[thorborg]

Money to be had for sure but in this case, the market may fuel the greed but I don't believe the greed fuels the market.
AndyinEverson post is squared away.
Evil politicks aside, the hoplophobia population is massive. Regardless of opposition's motives, whether its from the heart or the herd, fear for ones safety alone will not be enough to arouse the meek. Education, deprograming, with steadfast and vigilant protection and fortification of our unique constitution will be our only hope in turning the tide. The weight of the people en masse, will then divest itself of evildoers holding us hostage.
Without the herd in sync, there is little hope for my view of life, liberty and the pursuit it allows.

 

[The Heretic]

Nobody's saying that. I'm saying, it's not working.

"Working"?

That depends on your definition of "working" and on the real intended goal - doesn't it?

The true intended goal was not crime reduction, or the decrease of people harmed by "gun violence". It was:

Clearly, it is in the interest of the ruling class to have disarmed peons. That will never change.

Until such time as those elected to office and the bureaucrats in power are replaced with people who truly wish to serve for the good of the people instead of trying to rule the people and until such time as the populace understands that they are responsible for their own lives, and that they are best served by minimum government and maximum freedom, that will not change.

Being the cynical person I am, short of an apocalyptic level reboot of "civilization", I doubt we would ever get to that point. Not advocating such a reboot, just saying, that is what I believe it would take as the current mentality is so far down that rabbit hole, that humans, as a majority, will not turn from that path without something forcing them to completely reconsider almost everything they currently hold true.

Even then, it would be quite an iffy thing.

 

[PaulB47]

Until such time as those elected to office and the bureaucrats in power are replaced with people who truly wish to serve for the good of the people

That won't happen. People who run for office are not angels. On the contrary. You have to look at it from the rulers' point of view. Why would they want armed peons? It makes no sense. They never, never, never get into office to serve, other than their own interest. As De Gaulle put it, "In order to be the master, the politician poses as the servant." But only the naive actually believes they are servants.

My definition of gun control "not working" is being able to buy a gun if I need one, with little risk. That is getting to be more and more the case in America, and yes even in Oregon.

The real intended goal is as you say it is, but it still is not happening. Actually neither the advertised goal nor the actual goal is happening. Gun control does not stop crime, and gun control is not going to control and enslave the people either. The reason is, the choice is in our hands, not theirs. "Political power flows from the barrel of a gun." We are the ones with the guns. We aren't giving 'em up either.

 

[EPS]

The funny thing about trying to enforce magazine bans on a state level is that people can, and will, simply buy them and bring them in from out of state. They don't have serial numbers so you can't track them, and only a handful of states passing laws aren't going to cause manufacturers to start adding serial numbers. Again, it's more about control than actually stopping guns or magazines, since they have no real ability to enforce any of these foolish laws, only to tag on an extra charge when someone is caught breaking the law with them. Nope, without a national level ban/restriction, you're just screwing with your own state's residents, and not making any real or measurable change.

Shhhhh don't give them any ideas or they will have serial number 's on Mag's well not the 150 I got in my closet but the new one's

 

[EPS]

Seattle passed the tax law on guns and ammo sold in the city limits so now every weekend you go to cabelas north or south of Seattle and it's packed with people buying guns and ammo lol even the ones from Seattle with the little rainbow stickers on there cars

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Unfortunately, I think @bolus found a stunning lack of support from the Oregon GOP leadership during his recall efforts last year. I don't expect any of them, except for those who have stood up for the 2A in the past, to do jack except to roll over on their backs so they can get a tummy rub from their Democrat masters.

We recently turned back an appointment of Val Hoyle to a vacant state legislature seat. The Lane County commissioners got to choose the replacement for the vacated position. Many here wrote emails and called to express their desire for "anybody but Hoyle". We got a Democrat, but one that thinks "we have enough gun legislation already."

 

[2Z4]

Gun control is coming to Oregon. One of the first steps is registration, which was accomplished with SB941.

Some of the same people who ruined the state to the south of us are moving here to ruin this state.

 

[Koda]

I'd be willing to give some $$ to SAF if they would come down to OR and fight Salem like they fight Olympia. I don't see OFF doing much for us - I'll support them, but they don't take a fight to Salem, at least I've never seen them do it - I just don't think Kevin has anything to hold over their heads, if he did, he could have stopped SB 941. OFF won't be able to stop what's coming this year either - just tell us we need to call and write our legislators.

this isn't what Ive seen from OFF. I don't readily have sources to cite but from my own anecdotal observations OFF has done a tremendous amount of work including taking the fight to Salem on various issues. Ive got 2 of Kevins books on Oregon's gun laws and there are notes about OFFs work overturning and amending various gun control bills over the years mentioned throughout, Im certain there are more examples on OFFs webpage one thing for certain if it wasn't for OFF Oregon's gun laws would be much more infringing and as far as I know OFF is the only gun-rights organization representing Oregon. I also wouldn't blame OFF, or Kevin specifically, for not stopping SB 941... a campaign funded by a multi millionaire and based on lies, how do you fight that? I got swarmed with email updates and mail from OFF fighting that campaign tooth and nail and OFF/Kevin specifically was very vocal on working hard, in Salem, getting that law rejected or amended. OFF also started the Prozanski recall which was actually a successful campaign in that the anti-gun SOS would not allow an accurate count of the signatures when in fact OFF had collected more than enough.