Why do you think Gold or Silver is worth more then a red turd?

[powersbj]

Gold has value because everyone on the planet, has for the last few thousand years decided it does. That's about all there is to it. On the other hand my, green paper seems to buy me less and less every year, and on occasion everyone on the planet decides that paper stuff all the .govs print isn't worth anything anymore. Usually about the same time the .gov that makes it, becomes completely dysfunctional...

 

[EZLivin]

EZLivin> This is mearly a question to all and part opinion on my behalf. Im confused on your statement. I think your answer is pretty Ignorant.

I thought I gave a pretty concise answer as to why precious metals were a better store of value than red turds. Your initial post was long, but, it sure sounded like you did not want to spend much (if any) time on the subject. So I summed it up in one paragraph.

Ok, elaborating...

Gold (and the other items I mentioned) are a store of wealth. They have been for all of recorded history. People with wealth to protect have two choices; paper or au/ag and other collectibles. Metals are generally considered better than other collectibles because of their liquidity. You can be anywhere in the world and it is no problem to convert or use precious metals to acquire other "stuff."

People make the mistake of thinking that, when a "SHTF" event occurs, they will suddenly be digging up their gold and silver, or taking their Picasso off the wall to use as money. No. To a limited extent you might find someone who will accept those items in trade, but generally you would convert your metals to whichever currency is in vogue. These things are a store of wealth, and should not be looked at as day to day money. There can be exceptions to the rule of course, but that is how it works overall.

Stockbrokers and buying metals: Don't get me started! Stockbrokers are generally not experts on currencies, and are slow to spot trends. It infuriates me when "professionals" give advice on things they know nothing about. Bottom line: 2001-gold $250, silver $4.00; Today-gold $1737, silver $34.92. 2001-HUI $35.99; Today-HUI 563.77. What can I say other than I am sorry they missed the best performing markets for the last 10 years.

SHTF: Pretty much every one of us (me included) tries to develop a script on how things will play out. The danger is we end up planning based upon the minute details we write into that script. I think it is wiser to look back in history, and take cues from that, rather than starting with a blank page which will likely end up jaded by our American survivalist culture (books, movies, etc.). Argentina, WWII Europe, and the breakup of the USSR provide some good modern data.

btw. I am not a professional. I am just someone with an interest in economics and history who uses those interests to try to identify trends.

 

[slimmer13]

Ok im sure some of you have read Survivors. There is a part that says the price of gold or the purchasing power hasnt gone up but the value of the "almighty" dollar has nosedived. In 1964 a Colt 1911 cost $65. $65 worth of gold in 64 is now worth $800 or so, the current price of a Colt 1911. Or then the average price of a home was $18,000. That much worth of gold in 64 is now worth over $200k, the price of a slightly above average home. So when you put all your $$ into dollars/401k then in the long term you are getting raped by inflation/devalueation of the dollar. Dont think you can really go wrong with something tangible that has been such a constant over history.

 

[Gunner3456]

Ok im sure some of you have read Survivors. There is a part that says the price of gold or the purchasing power hasnt gone up but the value of the "almighty" dollar has nosedived. In 1964 a Colt 1911 cost $65. $65 worth of gold in 64 is now worth $800 or so, the current price of a Colt 1911. Or then the average price of a home was $18,000. That much worth of gold in 64 is now worth over $200k, the price of a slightly above average home. So when you put all your $$ into dollars/401k then in the long term you are getting raped by inflation/devalueation of the dollar. Dont think you can really go wrong with something tangible that has been such a constant over history.

That's a good argument for buying guns, LOL. I really liked your post, and of course you can't store or hide a lot of money in guns like you can PM's. But anything of intrinsic and commonly accepted value is better than fiat paper money.

 

[slimmer13]

Guns and ammo should be part of any well divirsified portfolio

 

[nwwoodsman]

Silver is good 'cause you can melt it down and kill werewolves. And as for me, if the shtf and I'm stuck in the woods with my family, little food, no gas, and only a 12 gauge and a box of shells, well, I'd gladly trade half my ammo for an ounce of gold. The possibilites for it are endless.

 

[Gunner3456]

Silver is good 'cause you can melt it down and kill werewolves. And as for me, if the shtf and I'm stuck in the woods with my family, little food, no gas, and only a 12 gauge and a box of shells, well, I'd gladly trade half my ammo for an ounce of gold. The possibilites for it are endless.

All you did there is declare that you don't have any significant amount of money. It's been said over and over on this forum that gold and silver are one way to store excess money - money you have left after you have more preps than you need.

If you had all the preps you could possibly want, and still had a million dollars left in the bank, and the SHTF and you had to go out into the woods, where else could you have hid that money with the hope you might be back for it? Surely not paper dollars? Surely not in a bank?

 

[MinnesotaORnewbie]

Thinking about this more and more, how would trading a gold maple leaf work in post SHTF era. Will people be cutting gold 1 ounce rounds up with a hack saw in order to trade for a 1/4 of beef? I am thinking about the whole survival and prepareness thing more and more. I understand where alot of people are coming from and why you all are taking these steps. The main thing holding me back is, If things do get really bad in the world, are you who are stock piling supplies thinking it is going to be a step to the end of the world, or just a few years of tough living and people turning uncivilized. I just keep thinking who am I to try to avoid god's will if things get that bad.

 

[PhysicsGuy]

As to those who believe that gold prices don't drop for any tangible amount of time. Just ask anyone who bought gold in 1980!

 

[Brown Trout]

Thinking about this more and more, how would trading a gold maple leaf work in post SHTF era. Will people be cutting gold 1 ounce rounds up with a hack saw in order to trade for a 1/4 of beef?

That is the difference between gold and silver. My reason for buying gold is that it is like a bank for me. If hyperinflation strikes, the economy falls (did I say "if"?) and you own gold before that happens, you will have locked up some of your worth in something that does not lose value. Just because the price of gold goes up and down in terms of dollars, dollars do not determine the value of gold. It is the other way around. When a new monetary system is set in place, you will have something of recognized value to trade, if you choose, for the new "dollar". That gold will have carried your net worth through the economic depression.

My reason for buying silver, (junk silver for me) is that during the economic collapse, you will have something of recognized worth in small denominations to make purchases with so that you won't have to take a hacksaw to your gold. The silver is just one item to barter with when your the gas station or Fred Meyer or whoever does not want to take bullets, guns, wheat, batteries, etc. for payment of their goods. It has recognized, intrinsic value that is not linked to the dollar.

Or you could just stick to storing your red turds.

 

[Grunwald]

YES but my point is UNLESS YOU BOUGHT 3 years ago it's not that great of a deal. They are hawking the crap on the radio all day long. Which means they want the pyramid to keep growing. The price goes up because demand goes up. LIKE PRIMERS AND POWDER AND .380 ammo when all the sky is falling types thought Obama was taking our guns away.

I'm not even mentioning the discount you get hit with if you try to sell the stuff. Well unless you find another Smuck to pay going rate. The dealers will cut you 20%+

Not true. Please take the time to inform yourself before making such statements. You can go to Apmex web site and see exactly what they will pay you for your gold. For instance the current spot price is $1744 and they will pay you $1786 for 1oz Gold Eagle, while their sell price is $1853.99.
The means that the difference between their buy price and sell price is just under 6%, a far cry from your imaginary 20%.

 

[Grunwald]

Ok im sure some of you have read Survivors. There is a part that says the price of gold or the purchasing power hasnt gone up but the value of the "almighty" dollar has nosedived. In 1964 a Colt 1911 cost $65. $65 worth of gold in 64 is now worth $800 or so, the current price of a Colt 1911. Or then the average price of a home was $18,000. That much worth of gold in 64 is now worth over $200k, the price of a slightly above average home. So when you put all your $$ into dollars/401k then in the long term you are getting raped by inflation/devalueation of the dollar. Dont think you can really go wrong with something tangible that has been such a constant over history.

I would not even try to price things in gold prior to 1973 since we were still on sort of a gold standard and so the price of gold was fixed at $35 per oz.

 

[Hook686]

Gold and silver only have the value I give it.

I do not give gold, or silver, much value. When hungry I cannot eat either. When thirsty I cannot drink either. If I can find someone who does value them, I might be able to swap them for something I do value (food, clothing, shelter, source of energy, and a weapon to protect these). Everyone has different values. In the final analysis anything only has the value I place on it.

 

[slimmer13]

I guess it all depends on what you're planning and preparing for. If the four horsemen of the apocolypse come riding in then nobody is gonna give a damn about how much gold or silver they have in the safe and your salvation is in gods hands. For nearly every other disaster/recession/depression/collapse or calamity that I survive id like to have some of my net worth tied up in tangibles rather than it all being in the banks database. I strongly suggest a BALANCED approach to preparing for hard times.

 

[Gunner3456]

Gold and silver only have the value I give it.

I do not give gold, or silver, much value. When hungry I cannot eat either. When thirsty I cannot drink either. If I can find someone who does value them, I might be able to swap them for something I do value (food, clothing, shelter, source of energy, and a weapon to protect these). Everyone has different values. In the final analysis anything only has the value I place on it.

OK, I won't give you the $1 million dollars in gold you just won in my lottery, and I was just getting ready to call you to come and pick it up, LOL.

 

[EZLivin]

Everyone has different values. In the final analysis anything only has the value I place on it.

That is why we have a monetary system instead of a barter system; to facilitate the exchange of goods and services. What I don't understand is why some people don't consider gold and silver to be currencies. Gold, silver, platinum, and palladium should be looked at the same way as any foreign currency is (including the $US). The value of all of them (including the $US) is established in the world market, not by the individual. But it is up to the individual as to whether or not they want to be part of that market. One cannot "eat" or "drink" gold or silver, but neither can they eat or drink the $US, $CA, Euro, etc. But all of them can be easily exchanged for the "currency of the realm," which is then used in commerce. So when someone says gold and silver (or platinum, or palladium) has no value to them I just think they have not thought it through. (But that doesn't mean they have to be a part of that market; not everyone can handle the volatility that goes along with an alternative currency.)

 

[Siglvr]

The value is the value that the market places on it. The market doesn't give a ratsass what you or I think. Right now you can't take a can of tuna fish, and go trade it for a single ounce of gold. You might get close to doing that if you had 3500 cans of Tuna Fish in good condition. There is a value to gold that is external to your thoughts.

If and when we run into financial difficulties, then the same thing will still apply, although as noted, prices of both gold AND all commodities (tuna fish, gas, orange juice etc) fluctuate over time.

There seems to be this reoccurring theme on this thread that you can either have gold/silver OR food. But not both. Nothing could be further from the truth. People who wind up getting into some gold usually already have a space crammed full of guns, ammo, food, survival supplies, water filters, first aid supplies, water, etc etc. Furthermore, those dissing on gold seem to think that because you cannot eat it, during a crisis, it will be no good and of no value.

Let me ask those who believe that this question: when, in the course of the last 5000 years, did gold ever become valueless? When? Please show us one time. One. All commodities go up and down in value. Gold has always bought a lot of food. A lot. Always.

Name one time in mans recorded history where gold became of NO value. How about of "little" value then.

If it has no value to YOU, that's fine for you, you can go off and think anything you chose to believe or not to believe: but it appears to me that people who think that gold will have no value at all are deluding themselves. As if what what they think will influence a worldwide commodity market, which will ignore those things and grind on like it has since recorded history. When or if the SHTF, I suspect that someone with an ounce of gold will still be able to convert it to whatever they want so that the receiver can then go get whatever they want. That's the way it's always worked.

Can anyone name a single instance in time where it did not work that way and gold was valueless?

For those who do not want to stack up a handful, say, 50 ounces of gold in a tiny corner of your safe someplace...go ahead and buy the corresponding 175,000 cans of tuna fish and store those for when the critical time comes. Hey, you can eat it! Right?

The neighbor cats would support this idea, but tell us how that works out for you later when the stuff ages. LOL. The gold will still be as new when we're old and that fish is moldy.

Regards to all!

 

[Brown Trout]

Gold and silver only have the value I give it.

I do not give gold, or silver, much value. When hungry I cannot eat either. When thirsty I cannot drink either. If I can find someone who does value them, I might be able to swap them for something I do value (food, clothing, shelter, source of energy, and a weapon to protect these). Everyone has different values. In the final analysis anything only has the value I place on it.

you cannot eat dollars either, so I suppose you have refused to save up any of those? You cannot drink dollars, so I suppose you have opted out of trading with them?

With all due respect, your statement has no value to me.

 

[Thebastidge]

The major thrust of this thread is pretty silly, so I'll address a minor peripheral point.

No- don't use a hacksaw to cut of gold rounds. You don't wan to waste the gold filiings that would come off of it. People will weight your pieces of 8. USe a pair of metal shears. Gold is soft. 99.% gold is VERY soft.

There's also gold "dimes" or 1/10th OZ pieces. Same for pure silver (as well as buying junk silver). You pay a premium when you buy in these smaller denominations, but they would be easier to "spend" in an economic collapse.

 

[rur862]

Gold is valuable because people are willing to pay a high price to acquire it.
Such is not the case with red turds.

Gold is a universally accepted currency that cannot be printed, regardless of how much our government would like to be able to.

Many tyrannical regimes throughout history have made gold illegal to own for this very reason, the government cannot steal the value of hard currency by printing more of it. Gold was actually illegal to own in our country from 1933-1974.

It is important to own at least some gold because it is impossible for it to be stolen through inflation. This is something we should worry about when Keynesians are in control of our government, i.e people like FDR, Reagan, Obama, Bush etc. All of these people drastically increased the size of government and used the Federal Reserve to fund it. If the government decides to print more money, the price of gold rises to reflect its true value.

True, most of the time you don't really gain anything from investing in gold, but you don't lose anything either, which is more than you can say about any other investment you would otherwise have made.