Why do people give guns a bad name?

[CEF1959]

Threats? Well, there's this from a GOP rally in Idaho.

<broken link removed>

A gubernatorial candidate was talking about the upcoming wolf hunt, with tags available cheaply to Idaho residents. An audience member at the rally shouted a question about "Obama tags." Ha ha ha. The GOP candidate said he'd buy one. Hardy har har. The funny thing about "humor" is that it often reflects a certain troubling indication of one's real attitude. Racist jokes, sexist jokes, etc. Talk about hunting down a black man like an animal is pushing things in our historical context. Republicans say they are appalled at this. Good for them.

You put that together with signs that say "Water the tree of liberty" (a reference to the Jefferson quote about the tree of liberty needing to be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants) and Obama opponents bringing guns to Obama events. Yeah, I can see how it looks threatening. It seems designed to be intimidating. A very un-American mode of public discourse imho. Very unnecessary. Counterproductive to gun rights.

 

[NK777]

Threats? Well, there's this from a GOP rally in Idaho.

<broken link removed>

A gubernatorial candidate was talking about the upcoming wolf hunt, with tags available cheaply to Idaho residents. An audience member at the rally shouted a question about "Obama tags." Ha ha ha. The GOP candidate said he'd buy one. Hardy har har. The funny thing about "humor" is that it often reflects a certain troubling indication of one's real attitude. Racist jokes, sexist jokes, etc. Talk about hunting down a black man like an animal is pushing things in our historical context. Republicans say they are appalled at this. Good for them.

You put that together with signs that say "Water the tree of liberty" (a reference to the Jefferson quote about the tree of liberty needing to be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants) and Obama opponents bringing guns to Obama events. Yeah, I can see how it looks threatening. It seems designed to be intimidating. A very un-American mode of public discourse imho. Very unnecessary. Counterproductive to gun rights.

Now this is a different story and I don't think it should be included in this thread. Clearly this guy was not representive of the general population. What can I say but they are out there. This guy while exercising his rights actually ignorantly made a threatening statement. This does reflect poorly on all gun rights people. As I said a very unfortunate thing.

Edit: I guess I should have read the article before posting. This article does not directly apply to the thread at all. This guy was not exercising his 2nd amendment rights at all. He was in fact just exercising his 1st amendment rights with piss poor judgement. What he in fact said could be considered criminal because even though it was a joke it was a threat against the president.

 

[CaseyPod]

First of all I never said concealed carry or open carry is inappropraite...

Let me make one thing very clear, I am Athiest.

Where do I even begin? First off- how do you know how many people had concealed carry firearms at that rally? Enough for concern, if you are inclined to be concerned about a Constitutionally armed populace, as you seem to be.

Do you know why concealed carry is licensed by the state? It used to be illegal under common law because criminals were likely to 'conceal' their weapons, thus concealing their intent to do someone harm or commit a crime. The state makes you pay a fee for the 'priviledge' of hiding your weapon like a criminal - not that I won't pay for it personally (because it keeps the cops off your arse these days... sometimes)

I couldn't give a damn that you are an atheist. But the fact is that the true law of the land was created by incredibly intelligent God fearing men. The Constitution does not give you your rights, rather it is a document which keeps government from infringing upon your 'God' given rights. Or 'natural' rights if you prefer....

This has not kept the government from cutting away at our rights through one phony unconstitutional piece of legislation after another. If people do not stand up and exercise these rights publicly - even in what may seem inappropriate to the sheeple - to get that media attention and spark debate then I am afraid we are screwed. If no one stands up (REALLY stands up) our second amendment rights will be completely stripped away without a fight. When was the last time you saw someone who had the balls to exercise his right to open carry at such a public forum?

His Highness Obama does not have a 'Constitution Free Bubble' protecting him. He has the secret service.

In my humble opinion, if you aren't willing to stand up for your rights in a very public way- then you deserve the slavery that awaits you...

:gun14:

 

[ernurse]

Flak, I think you are imposing your own thoughts on this protestor,
1. you say you would only take a long rifle out in public to kill....thats a tough statement to believe... and that doesnt mean that every other person who does thinks as you do.
2. the man was not at the debate, he was at protest a block away.
3. This man threatened no one, if you feel intimidated seeing a slung weapon than I think you need to relax.
4.did anyone see the closeup of his ar mags, I beleive they were empty.
5. did you notice how the media tried to spin that he was a white racist, Iwatched one news clips that covered up the facts by manipulating the pics that he was black, then had a black commentator start playing the racial intimiidation card.
6. what those idiot new black panthers did at the polling station was intimidation.
7. are you really a spy for the DU.

 

[Flakman5000]

I don't know how many people had concealed carry and I don't care. In the State of Oregon we do not allow open carry in city limits without a special permit and the CHL does not necessarily give you the right to open carry. A gun is a final line of defense against a would be attacker. And if someone is trying to take your life by all means pull that trigger. But, just because someone gives you bubblegum or breaks your car window does not allow you to pull your gun on them. Remember the criminal must be engaging in a violent act and must be committing a felony for you to do so. That is law.

Secondly, CEF1959 said it perfectly. refer to him on the issue of making threats. I can't say it any better. Nice job.

Separation of church and state you monkey. Period.

If this was gangland USA I would say it would make sense to open carry. By all means. But was the man who carried openly in a life threatening situation? And, what are you going to do? start a revolution? And if you are, who decides for all the people in this country? We do have a system.

I would never take your right to own operate and use arms in self defense. But, we need to draw lines. I hate Californians laws and the Brady bill. But, we do need some governance over our gun ownership. Anarchy just cannot rule in this regard.

That man made a statement with his gun that is not protected under the first amendment. Fing duh.

I don't know what the new Black Panthers did, so please enlighten me. I do believe the old Black Panthers crossed the line.

What is the DU?

 

[NK777]

I don't know how many people had concealed carry and I don't care. In the State of Oregon we do not allow open carry in city limits without a special permit and the CHL does not necessarily give you the right to open carry.

Okay now your really not making any sense. You don't even know your oregon laws. Allow me to educate you. Oregon is an Open carry state. Oregon is a shall issue CHL state. If you have a CHL you can indeed openly carry most places if you choose to. There are a few city ordances that prevent open loaded carry with in city limits of a few citys unless you have a CHL. Beaverton is such a city that has such rules and there are a couple others. I personally disagree with these laws and it is one of the reason I opted for a CHL. A handgun is useless to you if it is not loaded and accessable. Preventing the good law abiding citizens from defending themselves from an armed attacker is wrong and does not make anybody safer ever.

I have to ask you now... Do you even live in Oregon like you claim you do? If it's true that you do please start researching your local laws before spouting about what you apparently know nothing about.

 

[Flakman5000]

No it comes down to city ordinance. You can not open carry in Portland, Beaverton, Salem, Tigered, and most major inner city areas. This is what I understand. so good luck doing it in the open. Bottom line I know the laws. It is considered a felony in Beaverton so...

If you bothered to read I said exactly what you stated. CHL in most cases gives you the right to open carry hand guns. Minus the rifles. so, where did I go wrong?
I said the CHL does not "necessarily" give you the right to open carry. What about the word "necessarily" do you not understand?

Also, I don't understand, when laws are created there done so by elected officials here, so, just because you don't like it, what makes you qualified to change it?

In fact Thursday I was in Kieth's Sporting Goods in Gresham . Some retards were pointing guns at each other and saying "I'm so going to open carry this. I can't wait to get into a fire fight.". That is the exact words of what they said. These two, just 21 year olds, where maybe joking around, but to me, if it was my store, I'd have kicked them out. An ex-police officer was nice enough to approach them and clarify it was illegal with out a CHL and that in most cases a special permit was required. what that permit is I don't know. He didn't tell them. I was doing an AK transfer at the time and waited 2 hours for the guy to get his stuff together and show up.


On an up note however. You got to love this. I was getting called in on my Background. There was a young, lets say strong looking lady, who was ahead of me. Kieth's did her background first. Not only did she give a fake name, but when the state trooper asked her why she wanted a gun, she said and quote.

"It is for Burning man. You know. Anti-government, anti-corporation."

Guess what? Denied!!!

I was approved of course.

 

[NK777]

No it comes down to city ordinance. You can not open carry in Portland, Beaverton, Salem, Tigered, and most major inner city areas. This is what I understand. so good luck doing it in the open.

I bet you a million dollars I can openly carry in all of those cities with a CHL. You don't apparently know the laws completely. CHL holders are exempt from the city ordinances.

Also, I don't understand, when laws are created there done so by elected officials here, so, just because you don't like it, what makes you qualified to change it?

You need to calm down and start proof reading your posts. Your rationality is getting weeker. Your getting a little to emotional and it's clouding your judgement.

 

[Flakman5000]

I am sure you can for the most part. I never said you couldn't for the most part. I've read the opencarry.org on Oregon extensively and your right, but as I explained I overheard a special permit is required in some circumstances. Explain that, the ex-officer did not.

 

[NK777]

In fact Thursday I was in Kieth's Sporting Goods in Gresham . Some retards were pointing guns at each other and saying "I'm so going to open carry this. I can't wait to get into a fire fight.". That is the exact words of what they said. These two, just 21 year olds, where maybe joking around, but to me, if it was my store, I'd have kicked them out. An ex-police officer was nice enough to approach them and clarify it was illegal with out a CHL and that in most cases a special permit was required. what that permit is I don't know. He didn't tell them. I was doing an AK transfer at the time and waited 2 hours for the guy to get his stuff together and show up.

Sounds like a couple of idiots to me. They're out there and I agree that they should have gotten the boot.

On an up note however. You got to love this. I was getting called in on my Background. There was a young, lets say strong looking lady, who was ahead of me. Kieth's did her background first. Not only did she give a fake name, but when the state trooper asked her why she wanted a gun, she said and quote.

"It is for Burning man. You know. Anti-government, anti-corporation."

Guess what? Denied!!!

I was approved of course.

Good I'm glad she didn't get a gun legally. That is how the law was designed to work. I am in full support of restricting crazys and criminals from having legal access to firearms.

The whole situation in the store kind of sounds like a ATF set up to me. I too have met a nut at a gun store but I honestly didn't believe he was for real. He seemed to be trying to encourage me to talk about something illegal. I just tried to politely brush him off. He kept bragging about buying 2 AK47's the other day and thousands of rounds of amunition. I was like what you want me to be impressed or start telling you about all my Evil Black Rifles? He made me feel real uncomfortable. I was just there for some powder. He started asking leading questions about making bombs with it in which case I told him that "It seemed like a heck of a waste of powder to me."

One thing is clear to me lately... something weird is going on and people are acting strange.

 

[Flakman5000]

Understand. I am playing devils advocate here. I believe we need some restriction. I mean owning 100 pounds of dynamite is crazy.

Let me explain that. I lived in Silverton Oregon for a couple of years with my father while I went to Chemeketa. If you remember about 2005 I think. A man was caught with 100 pounds of dynamite in the trunk of his car. This car was 25 feet from my bedroom window. I never even knew it.

So, yes I believe there is a need for some restriction. California is breaking the law and I believe if the ACLU would stand up, they would get rid of the ban.

besides that, I don't think the man with the rifle was wrong. I think he meant no harm. he was like you. I am saying, however, that it was inappropriate. But at the same time he did get us all asking and engaging about our government. That to me is important. I don't believe in God? no! but I would never restrict your right to pray before a football game. I may not agree, but I understand.

Let me say this, and I hope you understand what this means. I am Liberatarain and I love this country. I tried to join the arm forces (granted as a database programmer for the air force) but given my eye sight, the three screws in my shoulder, and my leg being crow footed, they did want me.

I tried. That is what counts and remember I will not allow my next door neighbor to go die for my freedom, without me being there as well.

This is a great country. Our we flawed? Yes! can we ever change that? not completely. But Like Data from Star Trek, we need to try. We will never be perfect, but we do need to look at the past and ask "Was that right or wrong?". Does it become a Grey area? you bet! But, were still here and were still fighting. God bless all of you.

 

[Buddhalux]

Well in your search for perfection I suggest that you pick up a dictionary and a copy of the ORS code and start reading. Not just the Cliff's notes version either!!

 

[CaseyPod]

Understand. I am playing devils advocate here. I believe we need some restriction. I mean owning 100 pounds of dynamite is crazy...

God bless all of you.

1. Owning 100 lbs of dynamite without some type of professional need and a license is insane. But, that said- dynamite is an explosive, not a firearm. The laws are completely different.

2. In the same thread you called me a stupid monkey for bringing up the fact that our founders were Christians and that the Constitution has references to our rights being God given; you said you are an Atheist and don't believe in God, and now in your last breath here you say "God Bless All of You."

If you were trying to make a point by calling me a stupid monkey because I mentioned God, I hate to disappoint; I am no atheist, but I am not a church goer either. So your insults fell on deaf ears.

I hope you are only playing devils advocate, because you sound like an agent provocateur, stirring the pot in a bad way. The day we lose our rights seems to be approaching quickly. Eventually we need to stop playing devils advocate and start playing on the right side of the issue. The side of liberty and freedom is the right side of the issue.

 

[USMC1911]

He insulted you because he had no point. I still dont see threats being made. 1959's post had nothing to do with the op.

 

[CaseyPod]

He insulted you because he had no point. I still dont see threats being made. 1959's post had nothing to do with the op.

Roger that. Over and Out.

 

[Trlsmn]

you are the kind of A-hole that would start teaching Christianity in place of science in public schools. I think your an idiot. Freaking monkeys.

It didn't take long to show your true colors Flakman5000. Everything else you have to say from this point forward is tainted!

You are in fact a pathetic troll!

 

[Trlsmn]

Bullbubblegum. you are that type of person. the founding fathers didn't not recognize Christianity in law. How stupid do you have to be to not see that.

Calm down and go start your own religious thread with people that want to hear it, no one here wants to be insulted by you, it's against the rules, rude and shows a lack of self control!

 

[Flakman5000]

you want to talk rights? yet you don't want to recognize the law fully set up by the founding fathers. then why do you deserve rights? ask me that.

 

[Trlsmn]

you want to talk rights? yet you don't want to recognize the law fully set up by the founding fathers. then why do you deserve rights? ask me that.

Oh so now you want to debate? I don't waist time with people that don't understand the difference between a good strong debate and personal insults!

 

[Trlsmn]

I don't waste time on high school dropouts.

Am I supposed to jump and get all offended? Words don't offend me they just make the author look ignorant.

I think your an idiot.

I'm sure you can't see the irony in that statement.