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just like carrying a 1911 for self defense cocked and locked vs carrying a Glock already with one in the chamber as well… that safety on the 1911 will with almost 90 percent certainty cause you to squeeze the trigger with the safety still engaged in an actual self defense situation. Regardless of how many times you practice it.
So where does this 90% number come from? Sorry but this may fall under a Mark Twain statistic. So, does this mean a guy with a Glock is likely to press the mag release instead of the trigger 90% of the time under stress too??? No. Like everything, you have to train PROPERLY. Have I seen folks forget to disengage safeties on guns under stress? Sure, mostly on plenty of shotguns and AR's...because they have not been properly training. Just the same as with a handgun.

And I have watched guys that have carried a 1911 since the 70's go to classes where they induce stress and everyone has squeezed the trigger with the safety still engaged at least once and you can see the muzzle dip because of it. It just happens.
Carrying for decades and continuous, proper training for a perishable skill is not the same. I agree with you on this, and we get them in classes, but they have NEVER trained to properly draw a firearm and disengage the safety. They go to the range and shoot, nearly always with the safety off during the entire session. THIS will cause them to leave the safety on under stress.

To your point, if you carry a gun with a safety, YOU MUST TRAIN PROPERLY WITH THE SAFETY ALWAYS. I carry M&P's and 1911, safeties are in the same place, work the same way and my thumb goes in the same place. When I shoot, I'm constantly disengaging and engaging the safety. Dry fire practice is the same, draw practice as well.

I have no doubt you have observed what you state, but when I see it, it's almost always "People who shoot," compared against, "Shooters who train." Appreciate your perspective.
 
Perhaps, but I always remember that the wording of the 2A has no requirements to exercise the right. There is no price of admission. (Not in my state anyway)



You need to watch better channels. Try "Advanced Self Protection" ... I personally have seen at least a dozen vids there where trying to rack a slide in a gunfight cost the life of the defender.
Never said they can't carry. Never said there should be qualifications or tests. All I am saying is that there are some retards out there who I would rather see never touch/carry a firearm. Luckily it's a free country and the minute I see a gun come out or some poor handling/practices I can distance myself and no longer associate with said person. Never once did I say they can't carry. But just because you can doesn't always mean that you should…..
 
Never said they can't carry. Never said there should be qualifications or tests. All I am saying is that there are some retards out there who I would rather see never touch/carry a firearm. Luckily it's a free country and the minute I see a gun come out or some poor handling/practices I can distance myself and no longer associate with said person. Never once did I say they can't carry. But just because you can doesn't always mean that you should…..
You really should read what I wrote more carefully. You might be less defensive. I never accused you of anything!!!
 
It's obviously up to the individual. However, I would have to agree with the concept of it takes longer in actual self protection… one more thing to do in stressful situations… elevated heart rate etc etc… just like carrying a 1911 for self defense cocked and locked vs carrying a Glock already with one in the chamber as well… that safety on the 1911 will with almost 90 percent certainty cause you to squeeze the trigger with the safety still engaged in an actual self defense situation. Regardless of how many times you practice it. Personally avoidance of bad situations is the highest priority outside of actual stress induced training. Now if you had to use it because it's unavoidable like in the video… round in the chamber and you better believe that second mag is getting used as well.
You can squeeze the trigger on that 1911. It would probably be more beneficial to practice clearing malfunctions. Cause after that first round goes off (if the safety is disengaged) you're F-cked. Hahaha.
 
You really should read what I wrote more carefully. You might be less defensive. I never accused you of anything!!!
Not defensive. Just stating my opinion. If anything I was agreeing with your statement.
 
So where does this 90% number come from? Sorry but this may fall under a Mark Twain statistic. So, does this mean a guy with a Glock is likely to press the mag release instead of the trigger 90% of the time under stress too??? No. Like everything, you have to train PROPERLY. Have I seen folks forget to disengage safeties on guns under stress? Sure, mostly on plenty of shotguns and AR's...because they have not been properly training. Just the same as with a handgun.


Carrying for decades and continuous, proper training for a perishable skill is not the same. I agree with you on this, and we get them in classes, but they have NEVER trained to properly draw a firearm and disengage the safety. They go to the range and shoot, nearly always with the safety off during the entire session. THIS will cause them to leave the safety on under stress.

To your point, if you carry a gun with a safety, YOU MUST TRAIN PROPERLY WITH THE SAFETY ALWAYS. I carry M&P's and 1911, safeties are in the same place, work the same way and my thumb goes in the same place. When I shoot, I'm constantly disengaging and engaging the safety. Dry fire practice is the same, draw practice as well.

I have no doubt you have observed what you state, but when I see it, it's almost always "People who shoot," compared against, "Shooters who train." Appreciate your perspective.
Agree. I would sum up as, "Don't assume others can't handle the gun correctly based on your lack of training with said gun".

This same don't assume about others thing also holds true for double action/single action. Some people say DA/SA guns are bad because they have two different trigger pulls. I have not trained to shoot DA on first pull but I know very well that people who have trained their muscle memory can shoot DA followed by SA very well. For me I carry my DA/SA pistols cocked and locked (ie SA only) cuz that is what I have trained.
 
So where does this 90% number come from? Sorry but this may fall under a Mark Twain statistic. So, does this mean a guy with a Glock is likely to press the mag release instead of the trigger 90% of the time under stress too??? No. Like everything, you have to train PROPERLY. Have I seen folks forget to disengage safeties on guns under stress? Sure, mostly on plenty of shotguns and AR's...because they have not been properly training. Just the same as with a handgun.


Carrying for decades and continuous, proper training for a perishable skill is not the same. I agree with you on this, and we get them in classes, but they have NEVER trained to properly draw a firearm and disengage the safety. They go to the range and shoot, nearly always with the safety off during the entire session. THIS will cause them to leave the safety on under stress.

To your point, if you carry a gun with a safety, YOU MUST TRAIN PROPERLY WITH THE SAFETY ALWAYS. I carry M&P's and 1911, safeties are in the same place, work the same way and my thumb goes in the same place. When I shoot, I'm constantly disengaging and engaging the safety. Dry fire practice is the same, draw practice as well.

I have no doubt you have observed what you state, but when I see it, it's almost always "People who shoot," compared against, "Shooters who train." Appreciate your perspective.
From every single firearms instructor that I have ever been to… to anyone who has ever attended a class and used a 1911. Also why I said that at some point during the training it will happen at least once. Just the facts. Not saying that it's a bad choice but I am saying that it's one extra thing to do under stress that is useless.

I will make sure to film it the next time I go to a class and someone says that they have decades of training with their 1911. Film them squeezing with safety still engaged and then film it when stress is induced… especially with simunitions. NEVER had I said that I don't like the 1911. And I ALSO said that I regularly carry a 1911, micro 9 & Sig 938. ALL of them with one in the chamber, hammer rearward and safety on.
 
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From every single firearms instructor that I have ever been to… to anyone who has ever attended a class and used a 1911. Also why I said that at some point during the training it will happen at least once. Just the facts. Not saying that it's a bad choice but I am saying that it's one extra thing to do under stress that is useless.
Remember, the "typical" individual that goes to those classes won't be someone that will be practicing on their own.
 
What is muscle memory?
I assume this is a joke. But in case it's not, if someone says to you as you are in your house, "go to the back yard" you could do it 1000 times in row without any errors. It's a very complex series of motions but you don't even think about it.

If they said "as u approach the door, stop, reach out with your right hand and grasp the door knob, turn it clockwise, not counter-clockwise, then pull the door towards you 36 inches, then"... u get the idea. One is done by the slower part of the brain, the other is done by autopilot.
 
I assume this is a joke. But in case it's not, if someone says to you as you are in your house, "go to the back yard" you could do it 1000 times in row without any errors. It's a very complex series of motions but you don't even think about it.

If they said "as u approach the door, stop, reach out with your right hand and grasp the door knob, turn it clockwise, not counter-clockwise, then pull the door towards you 36 inches, then"... u get the idea. One is done by the slower part of the brain, the other is done by autopilot.
That's not muscle memory… it's a common misnomer to say that it's muscle memory. The brain is what controls and influences what transpires. The eyes take in the information. The skin feels the item. The blood pressure increases based on what the eyes see or ears hear. So the brain processes it and the body reacts to what the brain tells it to do. If you truly had muscle memory then you would be able to draw the pistol and shoot in a 1" hole every round based on the fact that once your muscles remembered what grip you held and what position your arms were in etc etc. What you are doing with repetition is giving yourself an idea of what you are capable of doing as a baseline. You are creating a habit. Saying muscle memory is like saying multitasking. Scientifically neither is true.
 
Agree. I would sum up as, "Don't assume others can't handle the gun correctly based on your lack of training with said gun".

This same don't assume about others thing also holds true for double action/single action. Some people say DA/SA guns are bad because they have two different trigger pulls. I have not trained to shoot DA on first pull but I know very well that people who have trained their muscle memory can shoot DA followed by SA very well. For me I carry my DA/SA pistols cocked and locked (ie SA only) cuz that is what I have trained.
Never said any others can handle their guns correctly and never said I had lack of training with my firearms. What I DID say is that I have seen vids of people losing their lives because of both failure to perform adequately under pressure, AND by the extra time needed, AND by the movement attracting the attention of the opposition, and equipment failures induced by the action needed to rack a round, an action/step that is unnecessary with loaded chamber carry. I have also said that until people (newbies) build up good habits thru proper training... they are vulnerable and I would rather see simpler, more failsafe, systems and procedures used by such if they were people that I cared about. For all others, do what you will at your own risk... you've been warned.

Also never said DA/SA guns are bad. But I DID say that I don't like those triggers and they are not my choice. IMO the BEST triggers are to be had on single action pistols or revolvers, but there are other considerations beyond best trigger feel. That's why I put up with the crappy Glock trigger... actually it's fine for SD, it's just not the best target shooting trigger.
 
Look at "Similar Threads" down below... same ol discussion. :rolleyes:

Mebe we talk about birdshot for home defense vs buckshot, or 9mm vs .45acp now????

BTW, what is the best calibre for big game hunting? ;)
 
That's not muscle memory… it's a common misnomer to say that it's muscle memory. The brain is what controls and influences what transpires. The eyes take in the information. The skin feels the item. The blood pressure increases based on what the eyes see or ears hear. So the brain processes it and the body reacts to what the brain tells it to do. If you truly had muscle memory then you would be able to draw the pistol and shoot in a 1" hole every round based on the fact that once your muscles remembered what grip you held and what position your arms were in etc etc. What you are doing with repetition is giving yourself an idea of what you are capable of doing as a baseline. You are creating a habit. Saying muscle memory is like saying multitasking. Scientifically neither is true.
Semantics. Most people know what u mean when u say muscle memory (as used constantly by high performance sports psychologists such as Michael Gervais who works with military snipers, olympic athletes, etc).
 
Never said any others can handle their guns correctly and never said I had lack of training with my firearms. What I DID say is that I have seen vids of people losing their lives because of both failure to perform adequately under pressure, AND by the extra time needed, AND by the movement attracting the attention of the opposition, and equipment failures induced by the action needed to rack a round, an action/step that is unnecessary with loaded chamber carry. I have also said that until people (newbies) build up good habits thru proper training... they are vulnerable and I would rather see simpler, more failsafe, systems and procedures used by such if they were people that I cared about. For all others, do what you will at your own risk... you've been warned.

Also never said DA/SA guns are bad. But I DID say that I don't like those triggers and they are not my choice. IMO the BEST triggers are to be had on single action pistols or revolvers, but there are other considerations beyond best trigger feel. That's why I put up with the crappy Glock trigger... actually it's fine for SD, it's just not the best target shooting trigger.
I wasn't referring to any of your previous statements at all (tbh I haven't read them yet even). I was only responding (agreeing with) willamettewill's statement on the poster who said 90% forget to take off the safety (or something to that effect).
 
Look at "Similar Threads" down below... same ol discussion. :rolleyes:

Mebe we talk about birdshot for home defense vs buckshot, or 9mm vs .45acp now????

BTW, what is the best calibre for big game hunting? ;)
Easy. Buckshot. 9mm. 300winmag. Conversation over.
 

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