Why body cameras should be mandatory for all Officers.

[ma96782]

And I know of another city (I still train some of their folks) who do not allow the officers to watch their own videos before writing reports. This is just ridiculous. Now you have the very real likelihood of their being a truly minor difference between the report and video which will be exploited to no end by the defense even if it has no factual relevance in the case.

Imagine if Harry was in uniform and wasn't allowed to review.......

01:47 "......in all this excitement, I kind of lost track myself."

Aloha, Mark

 

[WillametteWill]

Imagine if Harry was in uniform and wasn't allowed to review.......

If the last part was on video, it could prove to be...troubling now days.

 

[RVTECH]

If the last part was on video, it could prove to be...troubling now days

How about the part where he was stomping on Andy Robinson's leg after shooting him in it in Candlestick Park?

 

[ma96782]

I was actually thinking about......
If I had to write the report and I said that I fired 4 times. But, the badge camera said that I fired 5 times.

So then.......
I'd be accused of trying to "hide/falsify" the report. Nevermind that I'm human and there was much "confusion and excitement, etc...."

Imagine.....
All the problems that would come upon me, forever and ever, thereafter.

Credibility and flawlessness.....is demanded by ALL who have never lived it.

Aloha, Mark

PS....TRUTHFULLY. When I first saw the movie in the 70's. I saw that he was armed with a revolver......but, I sort of lost count myself.

 

[RedCardinalSeven]

You could sure hear she was in totally melt down, and she was damn lucky.

I agree SGT Salgado was fortunate but I don't think "she was in total melt down". She mostly maintained her composure and even asked about the well-being of her fellow officers. I saw things that I think all of the officers could have handled better but, overall, for imperfect, fragile human beings I thought they performed well under the circumstances.

One officer, before the deadly encounter with the now-deceased perp, lost his cool in a lengthy heated verbal tirade with a different guy he and his partner detained. So what? He transitioned very quickly from that and may very well have saved SGT Salgado's life. If you watch his bodycam video ("Body Worn Camera 2") I think you'll see what I mean.

 

[Alexx1401]

How about the part where he was stomping on Andy Robinson's leg after shooting him in it in Candlestick Park?

Guess he would have had to put a round through the body cam. Tell the brass, Sorry, scum shot my camera.

 

[No_Regerts]

I was actually thinking about......
If I had to write the report and I said that I fired 4 times. But, the badge camera said that I fired 5 times.

So then.......
I'd be accused of trying to "hide/falsify" the report. Nevermind that I'm human and there was much "confusion and excitement, etc...."

Imagine.....
All the problems that would come upon me, forever and ever, thereafter.

Credibility and flawlessness.....is demanded by ALL who have never lived it.

Aloha, Mark

PS....TRUTHFULLY. When I first saw the movie in the 70's. I saw that he was armed with a revolver......but, I sort of lost count myself.

I known if an officer who couldn't remember if she had +1 or just loaded a magazine and chambered a round. She was involved in a shooting and couldn't be sure about how many rounds were fired. They checked her other magazines and none of them had 17 rounds. She is a total ditz and I don't believe she tried to cover up the number of rounds fired, but it didn't look good.

 

[Alexx1401]

Well, I would.

But why do you say so?

Is it the meltdown response to the stress of being stabbed and having the perp shot while in close contact? I've seen enough vids of this to know that it is not that unusual. Officers often need a time out after an incident. They are often removed to a patrol car, allowed to calm down, and told not to talk until a union rep arrives.

It is a job that is not nearly as easy to do as many imagine, since they don't have to live it. Her complete melt down was bad at the time. What would concern me later is will she "get over it". Some times this happens, the person is fine days later. Some times this happens and the person never gets over it and becomes a liability to others. Most have no idea for sure how they will handle something like this.
Young guy who used to work with me, dream job was to become an LEO. Helped him get the job, and he worked his butt off to get it. After he got the nod and was waiting to start the Academy I played a tape for him. Several months before two LEO's go to a domestic call up here. Scum is upstairs, first LEO is at bottom of stairs calling him to come down. He pops around corner from top and shoots first LEO with rifle and of course runs back. Second LEO, has this same kind of melt down, screaming into her radio as she runs out of the house. She is still screaming outside while her partner is laying there bleeding out. He died. The kid listened to that tape and said "NO WAY" would I do that. I told him I was pretty sure he would not either but wanted him to hear it.
The really sad part of this is the "we hate all Cops" crowd. They are turning the job into something few want anything to do with. So departments are going to end up with more and more "misfits" who really should not get the damn job. If that is all they can find, that is what gets the job. Then there will be more and more really bad outcomes as some of these not qualified Officers end up on the street and some end up in supervisory roles.

 

[Alexx1401]

I known if an officer who couldn't remember if she had +1 or just loaded a magazine and chambered a round. She was involved in a shooting and couldn't be sure about how many rounds were fired. They checked her other magazines and none of them had 17 rounds. She is a total ditz and I don't believe she tried to cover up the number of rounds fired, but it didn't look good.

That is an example of stuff that just burns my butt. I have no use for an LEO who lies to cover stuff up but, when it's just some stupid thing like that? Then lawyers use this to try to ruin someone?

 

[No_Regerts]

That is an example of stuff that just burns my butt. I have no use for an LEO who lies to cover stuff up but, when it's just some stupid thing like that? Then lawyers use this to try to ruin someone?

I think she's just dumb and stopped loading when her thumbs hurt. There is no way she did 3 magazine changes.

 

[Alexx1401]

I think she's just dumb and stopped loading when her thumbs hurt. There is no way she did 3 magazine changes.

Someone should give her a mag loader

 

[bgdawgrr]

Beretta 92D - squeeze no bang. Was his safety off? Racks slide, squeeze no bang. Drops safety, 12 Rounds of bang.
One big reason I did the "G" conversion on my 92. That safety can throw ya.

Not much surprises me anymore. Here is a pic thats a reminder of that.

 

[zenbreath]

The police don't have to "rack a slide." Their sidearms are already locked and loaded before getting in the car.

That is true..... except when it isn't. I worked 20 years doing armed security for (Nondisclosure Agreement), here's a hint, you've seen us on the news. Many of our SOs were retired or reserve LEOs, many were 03s or 11Bs. It was not uncommon for someone to get a zero on the first stage of qual because their gun went click instead of bang.

 

[zenbreath]

I want some of whatever you're smoking. You realize "stab vests" and body armor designed to hopefully stop bullets (in no way "bulletproof") are manufactured completely different and for different purposes, right?

Y-Y-You mean I was LIED TO? My vest was 3A with stab-guard. I wore one vest, not two.

 

[zenbreath]

Another side on the original topic....

Do you want the Boss to be able to review EVERYTHING you say to your coworkers on shift? If you or your partner is a Shop Steward, how much will be recorded that management does not have a legal right to know?

If you give officers the option of turning the cameras off when they are on break, you take the risk of missing footage. Remember the 2009 Lakewood shooting.

 

[oldcorpgunny]

That is true..... except when it isn't. I worked 20 years doing armed security for (Nondisclosure Agreement), here's a hint, you've seen us on the news. Many of our SOs were retired or reserve LEOs, many were 03s or 11Bs. It was not uncommon for someone to get a zero on the first stage of qual because their gun went click instead of bang.

I have no doubt that someone could fail to remember to chamber a round. I chased a burglar on foot one night and unholstered my weapon and shouted that I would shoot him if he didn't stop running. (I was so out of shape I'm surprised I didn't collapse) He glanced over his shoulder and saw that I was indeed pointing a revolver at him and I wasn't running( I'd have never fired, but he didn't know that.) It wasn't until I raised my weapon that I realized I could see light streaming down the empty cylinders instead of the rims of .357 Magnum rounds!! I handcuffed the culprit and then loaded my revolver while he was watching. He was so pissed and confused. I could have died if the situation had been different. So even though I had been well trained at the academy and the Marines, I still made a mistake. I never made it again.

 

[bbbass]

I have no doubt that someone could fail to remember to chamber a round. I chased a burglar on foot one night and unholstered my weapon and shouted that I would shoot him if he didn't stop running. (I was so out of shape I'm surprised I didn't collapse) He glanced over his shoulder and saw that I was indeed pointing a revolver at him and I wasn't running( I'd have never fired, but he didn't know that.) It wasn't until I raised my weapon that I realized I could see light streaming down the empty cylinders instead of the rims of .357 Magnum rounds!! I handcuffed the culprit and then loaded my revolver while he was watching. He was so pissed and confused. I could have died if the situation had been different. So even though I had been well trained at the academy and the Marines, I still made a mistake. I never made it again.

Complacency can kill. The more we handle firearms, the more chance of becoming distracted, on autopilot, or complacent. Yes?

 

[bbbass]

Another side on the original topic....

Do you want the Boss to be able to review EVERYTHING you say to your coworkers on shift? If you or your partner is a Shop Steward, how much will be recorded that management does not have a legal right to know?

If you give officers the option of turning the cameras off when they are on break, you take the risk of missing footage. Remember the 2009 Lakewood shooting.

Hmmmm, I didn't know this was a thing... I thought "most" times/dept the officer was required to turn on his camera at the beginning of a chase, or getting out of the car, or approaching a suspect/perp, etc. Because I see it on the news, the officer failed to turn on his body cam.

 

[bgdawgrr]

Beretta 92D - squeeze no bang. Was his safety off? Racks slide, squeeze no bang. Drops safety, 12 Rounds of bang.
One big reason I did the "G" conversion on my 92. That safety can throw ya.

Reviewed the entire footage on COPA sight. The officer with the 92 fired. Officer 1 Glock 21 had issue. Perhaps trigger safety issue? Love to hear final finding.

 

[RedCardinalSeven]

Reviewed the entire footage on COPA sight. The officer with the 92 fired. Officer 1 Glock 21 had issue.

That's what it looked like to me, too.