National Why Are The Antis Winning? Can We Turn It Around, If So How?

[ilikegunspdx]

Imo mass shootings overrides politics or pretty much anything else in terms of national political will for gun laws.

After the las Vegas mass shooting trump banned bump stocks as one example.

Let's pretend we had a centrist, perfect president that had massive support from both sides of the isle. Let's say he was pro 2A. Then there is a mass shooting, and another, and another. In that scenario it really doesn't matter what politician sits there. The number and severity of shootings is what matters. That's what results in public outrage. And public outrage is what creates enough political will to pass gun laws.

The 1934 NFA may be another example of public outcry resulting in gun laws. It came following the Valentine's Day massacre and other organized crime shootings as well as an attempted assasination on Roosevelt if I recall correctly.

 

[GWS]

By any honest account, 2A supporters are losing the battle of retaining firearm freedoms. From NFA and GCA to local restrictions, we have lost far more battles than we have won. Are the antis intellectually superior to us? Do they have greater determination? Do they have deeper pockets? Are they better collaborators? Are they better marketers of ideas? Are they better cheaters than us? Do they have a better ability to turn peoples emotions into support for their cause? Maybe they are better organizers? Are they more better at attracting youth to support their cause? Are they more successful at utilizing mainstream media to gain support for thier cause? Are their supporters more devoted to their cause? Are their arguments more persuasive to the citizens? Do they have great organizational structures with less infighting and competing than 2A supporting organzitions?

Somewhere along the line we have fell short and not met the challenges presented to us by gun grabbers both in the government and by the citizens. Why do you feel we have not more succesfully stood up to the challenges they have thrown our way? What can we do to reverse the momentum in the other direction?

Why the antis are winning in 20 seconds

 

[ob1]

Why ?

Population demographics shift in the active voter base.

Who got seats in the Titanic's lifeboats ?
Most of us can figure that out for themselves.

 

[arakboss]

The 2A people can't even agree on platforms and cartridges, there's no way we'll come together when it matters. And that's why we lost our cake

I agree with this idea. The gun grabbers certainly have disagreements among their own. Ultimately all gun grabbers agree on some level of firearm restrictions. So as long as they get take away something they all win.

On our side we have a much wider spectrum. At one end people like me believe not only in no compromise but want absolute firearm freedoms (no restrictions). At the other end we have 2A "supporters" who want us to hand over our firearms if it will save one child.

With an extreme spectrum of positions like that it makes it very difficult for us to coalesce around positions that will make every 2A supporter a winner.

Not sure how that can ever be resolved?

 

[American123]

Because oppression/tyrannical rule is in fact a more naturally (historically) occurring state of humanity than freedom.

Because the tree of liberty is parched.

Because it will get worse before it gets better.

 

[Member 52301]

They are winning and making more noise. Until the NFA, GCA, etc are tossed out they will be winning. They are obviously better at making more noise than us too. That will be demonstrated Saturday, when March For Our Lives has their events.

Edit: It will be interesting to see how many counter protest we have this year.

Small counter-demonstrations take place amid "March for Our Lives" rallies

Small counter-demonstrations took place in cities across the country as hundreds of thousands rallied under the banner "March for Our Lives"

www.google.com

The freaking NRA did not even want to join or march with the SECOND AMENDMENT SISTERS in another area of D.C. or in VA when the huge MOMMY MARCH was going on in the District of Criminals in the late 90's or in 2000. This was AFTER the CO shootings/murders.

I can't remember the exact date now but I have written about it before HERE and elsewhere in the past.

Some members of the GOA and other members in various PRO GUN political groups marched with the SAS though. Some of them made speeches too. Some people who could not travel to D.C. or VA still had marches or small events in support of pro gun rights in their small towns, cities and states during that weekend.

Some police, some military - active and retired, small l and Large L Libertarians, some Rs, some Ds and other people that I knew personally OFFLINE and/or online in various gun forums/boards and groups were down there. I taped them and sent one friend in VA a duplicate video tape. He made copies and passed them on. He, his wife, a couple of police friends who were former Veterans and other RKBA friends of mine living in the area marched together and were on that tape.

The NRA did not even bother to ANSWER one invitation or one LETTER to the SAS ladies or to any other person who ASKED them to attend with PERSONAL HANDWRITTEN LETTERS, with emails and with personal telephone calls too. I knew men who were members of the SAS group with their wives and mothers too. You did not have to be a FEMALE to be in it.

The NRA was rude. They were too IMPOLITE to even send a NO THANK YOU NOTE to one SINGLE person.

I know that for a FACT!

They acted as if NO one existed other than them and they did not even attend ANY EVENT (Small or large.) to show PRO GUN support during that entire weekend of the Mommy Marches including in ANY other state across this nation.

When PRO GUN (?!?) GROUPS sell you out including CON MEN and CON WOMEN in so called conservative movements - what does that tell you?

Plus there ARE some pro gun(?) 'liberal' voters who will continue to vote for an ANTI GUN candidate because of the INITIAL by the candidate's name.

This goes for MODERATE and so called conservative voters too. They vote due to the initial by the candidate's name even if the candidate is nothing but a LIAR, THIEF, IS ANTI GUN IN HIS/HER OWN WAY, sells you down the river in many issues, etc.

Cate
PS: I have seen better run cookie sellers (Other ladies and ME!) at my OLD, former Volunteer FD/EMT township/county/state events at old FEATHER PARTIES and other events for FUNDRAISERS and more!

 

[Member 52301]

Other then the NFA that only got through because it was a tax (in an era when poll taxes were popular) "2A Supporters" gave it away. The NRA supported the GCA, Reagen signed the Hughes ammendment, and supported the assault weapons ban, Bush Sr. stopped imports, Trump banned bumpstocks, even just today 5 "Republicans" voted to continue to restrict our rights, that even NY congressman Kurt Schrader voted against.

This!

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

Don't forget Trump's bumpstock fiasco.

Don't forget a LOT of his other salami TALK, not only in GUN ISSUES, including at the BIG table meeting with Diane F. @ the White House talking about the RED FLAG LAWS.

LOOK it up and you can find the transcript AND film with words online to this day of that WH meeting.

I would say more but it might get deleted due to some over zealot MOD or whoever (?) for discussing something that TRUMP SAID and was on record for 11 or so times as a CONSPIRACY THEORY!

And for crying out loud, don't bring up the DRILLS and the dates of those drills at those schools too. Even though it was in the news and stated by all concerned.

There are and were laws on the books for these things when it came to RF laws.

Plus I don't see these GUN PEOPLE talking up about Biden's son, HUNTER, to the authorities about LYING about his drug/booze use and the THROWN AWAY GUN. But they want to go after honest gun folks.

The THING that stopped the LE and school down in Parkland had to do with the PROMISE bs laws that OBAMA put in for schools and giving kids an extra chance.

I don't know where that POST IS NOW since it may be one (?) that was deleted of mine. I do not have the energy to look for it now and if that IS the ONE that was deleted - it is all gone so I can't put some of that information ON here now. Plus it might just get deleted again!

But IF that PROMISE crapola had NOT been in effect - the murderer/shooter down in PARKLAND could have been stopped with NO Red Flag Law and with other LE actions since it would be EASY to see who that murderer creep was at the TIME. Plus IT IS ON RECORD that people even called the FBI too.

https://www.miamiherald.com/latest-news/article210611869.html

Flashback: The lax disciplinary policies that caused Parkland could spread to your school

The Parkland shooter never should have been in the same school as my daughter. But his misbehavior and warning signs went unpunished and ignored.

www.usatoday.com

Flashback: The lax disciplinary policies that caused Parkland could spread to your school

The Parkland shooter never should have been in the same school as my daughter. But his misbehavior and warning signs went unpunished and ignored.

Andrew Pollack
Opinion contributor

~~~

So you see, all of the so called GUN PEOPLE (?!?) in this nation even the LIBERAL ONES or so called moderate/conservative ones who control most of the 'WOKE' politically correct boards/forums like this ONE and all of the others in THIS DAY and AGE, news websites, news on the radio and on the boob tube shows, official INVESTIGATIONS (LOL) and are VERY much concerned on a PUBLIC IMAGE can't see the forest from the trees so how do you think that WE, gun folks, will EXPLAIN a whole bunch AWAY to some ON THE FENCE gun person or POTENTIAL R/L/Middle of the Road gun owner if all of the KNOWN FACTS in a news story - official lines given to the people by the LOCAL city/county police, sheriff's departments, state police, FBI, ATF and all of the other alphabet agencies OUT there?!

YOU may or may not be able to convince some people about some things when it comes to GUN ISSUES from a to c but you may not convince them from d to z because these people CHOOSE to ignore some things or they just do not believe anything other than CNN or FOX and everything else can't be true even if some of the official statistics are in black and white and given to them by the FINAL authorities.

Heck, I know born and raised gun men out here in MT and SOME of them including older men still say and BELIEVE that a semi automatic rifle like an AR 15 is a MACHINE GUN.

When I tell them the difference - they do not believe it and they still call it that. And I don't even own or want one but I do NOT call them a FREAKING MACHINE GUN!

So when I say that some other type of semi automatic rifle is like that but only has a different LOOK or it has a different magazine capacity that could be changed or not... they don't get it.

If my old lady memory serves me right, HANDGUNS are used more by CRIMINALS in CRIMES including MURDERS than criminals using rifles in the USA.

It was the last time that I checked but I could be WRONG there. But when I say to BLAME THE MURDERER/CRIMINAL not the gun - you get a blank look. Or you get a yeah, yeah - you still can't change their minds.

Plus many of these people including some 'gun people' (LOL) think that some of the people aka REAL CRIMINALS, some with a LONG RAP LIST, that some FAR LEFT groups idolize and PUT up on some altar and blame the police for - well - they still do NOT accept the final stories on what happened there. And that includes ALL of the RIOTS, ARSONS, etc. on public and private properties ALL ACROSS this nation.

They will tell me IN PERSON or on the telephone that they did not HEAR or SEE all of these news stories when it comes to crime and criminals and SELF DEFENSE SHOOTINGS made by police and other citizens.

They think that they do not exist or it is just blown up since they DID NOT read, see or hear about it.

So if you can't convince some SO CALLED (LOL!) gun people - how the heck can you convince a fence sitter about SAFE GUN OWNERSHIP and responsible behavior?!

When you tell them about the signs that were DELIBERATELY IGNORED - it is some conspiracy theory.

When you tell them that the TEXAS SHOOTER had a STATE ISSUED ID since he did NOT have a Texas DL - they still say something else even though it is PROVEN. That story has not changed from the gitgo... yet!

When you tell them that the TEXAS SHOOTER stole the vehicle of his Grandmother's and the rest of the flip flopping story - they still don't listen or pay attention. Most likely because of the LIES that were told from the gitgo and constant changing stories from all concerned including to the Governor.

And yes, that goes for MANY OTHER MURDERS/SHOOTINGS made by sane or insane (!) EVIL murderers!

And NOT only when it comes to SCHOOL MURDERS/SHOOTINGS.

When you tell them about the recent story about a MAN IN JAIL for life because he murdered someone and escaped... he turned around and murdered 4 or 5 people plus stole a truck of theirs from their cabin. When you say that the murderer should have been put to death for the FIRST murder or multiple murders - they think that you are mean.

Yet, the murderer could have just stolen the TRUCK at the cabin but he murdered some old lady and a bunch of kids up there. YOU get a BLANK LOOK and it was just in the news. And no matter what you say that could have PREVENTED the other NEWER murders due to a LAX and full of dung justice system - you get a BLANK LOOK.

That one comic is right - you can't FIX STUPID or people are just willing to be DUPED since they do not do their own research or they just DO NOT CARE no matter how much they say that they do when it comes to CRIME, the justice system in today's effed up world and their precious GUN rights.

Old Lady Cate

 

[Member 52301]

If anybody has a list of scheduled MFOL counter protest please share.

Join a March For Our Lives

secure.everyaction.com

Edit: You would think that given the circumstances we are dealing with right now that we could muster pro 2A crowds many times the size of the march for our lives crowds? I just checked the websites for OFF, NRA, GOA and SAF, there is no mention of scheduled MFOL counter protest anywhere on their sites. It looks like the MFOL won't have to share any of their thunder with the media and American people. I guess it's not our style so we will have to go back to banging on our keyboards miserating with the choir, like I am doing right now.
It's fair to say, I deserve what is coming for my/our firearm freedoms.

I have not seen any PRO GUN counter marches or events being planned or held in a PEACEFUL and SANE MANNER yet.

IF some 'yahoo' and his ILK or .gov AGENT and his ILK want to SCREW THIS UP with a buffalo head, some Q or Q ANON freak story or any other crapola like you saw THEM DO down there in the DISTRICT OF CRIMINALS on January 6th - don't do us NORMAL, sane and peaceful REAL pro gun owners of all flavors any FAVORS - stay home.

Old Lady Cate

 

[Member 52301]

Where is our national response to these types of lies & propaganda.

If there are abuses with donations to MFOL, Everytown, etc, why are we not calling them out?

I wrote about this man and his MARCH and it might have been one that was deleted by some mod or whoever in the TEXAS thread. One of the Texas murders threads.

I think that I mentioned THIS March in another thread too.

This young man has a MOM who worked or works for CNN and his DAD worked for the FBI and it is not some CONSPIRACY theory. He even showed them at CNN on film.

IT was mentioned in the past news, including by HIM, DH, on the news and in a documentary about the MURDERS IN FL AT THAT SCHOOL.

That FILM was shown in many places including on PBS many times.

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

Q: Why are the anti's winning?

A: Crazy people committing mass shootings

Crazy AND 'sane' EVIL PEOPLE get the news and attention.

If it BLEEDS - it leads.

Plus some of the murderers aka shooters do NOT work ALONE.

I would say more but it might get DELETED.

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

Media

The antis have the media fully on their side with complete control. Example, Microsoft newsfeed page when I open a new browser tab. There are 19 articles that are about gun violence and gun control. Only one is a pro 2A editorial. That means 18 have an anti-gun spin, including this gem, "See how AR-15 style guns create 'explosion inside the body'." That means about 95% of the mass media coverage is going against us.

The only national news that is either unbiased or pro 2A at times is Fox, and mostly dismissed as biased, which based on the stat above is a bit of a joke. Some Fox hosts have been challenging pro-gun politicians (which is okay as that is the job of media). Internet "news" for most folks is actually just confirmation bias...they seek views to confirm their beliefs. Thus, rarely exposed to counter-viewpoints and allowing critical thinking to kick in.

IMHO, we have to pick our battles by engaging the uninformed but interested folks in the middle and help them understand our perspective, one voter at a time sometimes.

Plus BOARDS all ACROSS the WWWeb and so called GUN people don't want to upset any person IF they themselves do NOT agree with a fellow gun person since it may be too controversial even if it is the TRUTH and proven. You know with facts, dates, history, official reports, etc.

BUT if they do NOT believe it or or if they did not read it, saw it, heard it, etc. - that OTHER view or side can't be told.

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

When you control the Media you control the People.

Hitler wrote about this while imprisoned in 1925.

Those who fail to teach/study history...

That includes ALL mass media including off of the WWWeb by so called GUN people too.

Our way or the highway!

Don't let pesky facts, proven transcripts and film with sound change some minds.

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

Why are "they" winning? A few reasons:

1. The public is less educated than ever about actual firearms. Back in the day, people grew up around them all the time - even if they didn't shoot, they were constantly exposed. Now? Exposure for many Americans is relegated to TV/Movies (and we know how Hollywood loves to portray guns) and police officers. A lot of the public is terrified of them because the grabbers have successfully demonized guns (and those who like them) in the public eye;
2. Word games. I cover this to some extent in my Weapons of War post/poll (please go check it out and vote if you haven't already), but the grabbers use language to convey a posture of fear. "Weapons of war" evokes the image of a battlefield at little Johnny and Susie's doorstep (and of course no one wants that). "High powered", "assault weapons", "high capacity" etc. sound scary to average Joe Citizen (again, see #1 - this is intentionally done to mislead a largely ignorant public), while "Everytown for Gun Safety" etc. sounds like something any reasonable person would want;
3. A complacent public who relies on the Nanny State to protect them instead of being responsible for their own protection. We see this all the time, and it's at the CORE (IMO) of a lot of gun grabber motivations. They think only government should have guns, because it's their job to protect us plebes, and "that's why we have police/military" etc. Of course, we know this is an ignorant position to have, but as I've already shown, the public is largely ignorant on this issue (and the public are the prize when it comes to making policy);
4. Budget. Bloomberg and the liberal left have very, very deep pockets - deeper than the NRA or any gun rights organization they demonize. And whomever has the most money tends to have the ability to shape public opinion in their direction due to media saturation.
5. Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics: let's be real here and state at the outset that both sides of the 2A debate do this to some degree. But the liberal/lefties excel at it: they cherry pick data to suit their conclusions, even though a rigorous review of actual data doesn't support their conclusions at all.

There may be more I'm not thinking of, but those are some of the big reasons IMO.

Gun owners can be pretty DENSE and very ill informed too.

Gun owners can be their own worst enemies too.

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

Well......when the Govt. can get away with having a Ministry of Truth.

You know "We the People" are sort of DOOMED.

Aloha, Mark

THIS!

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

There has ALWAYS been an "other side". History is no longer taught sadly. A HELL OF LOT of people did NOT want to break with England. Every time some new gun law goes in we for years hear gun owners come to the net to scream they "just found out" about it. This is not the lefts fault.

IT is not always the LEFT'S FAULT.

I have had Rs and Ds say that you can do x, y and z when it comes to GUN laws even when it comes to shipping a firearm to another STATE where the law says that you have to ship it from one FFL to another FFL dealer.

These are LONG TIME GUN OWNERS and not NEWBIES and they were in the MILITARY too. Decorated Veterans - some of them.

They will even tell ME that their neighbor said such and such and I will tell them that their GUN NEIGHBOR is wrong and prove it ATF WISE on the computer and some of them, NOT all of them, will argue and say that I am wrong when I am right LEGAL WISE.

Plus when it comes to some other salami with the OVER 20,000 gun laws in this nation.

The Rs can be just as STUPID as the Ds and vice versa when it comes to GUNS and a whole lot more!

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

For those that don't know or are late to the party.....
Well........I'll just leave this here.

Joe Biden’s ‘Ministry of Truth’

The Biden administration says it simply wants to battle misinformation. The best way to start might be to purchase a large mirror.

thehill.com

Aloha, Mark

I have free OTA - Over the Air boob tube reception (NO dish and no cable tv.) and between all of the ADS for BIG PHARMA'S Rx drugs from a to z (Ugh!) - they have many ads for DISINFORMATION on now too.

Plus ads for taking away your friend's or family member's guns too.

Cate
PS: I do have a cable connection for my ISP.

 

[308]

The 1934 NFA may be another example of public outcry resulting in gun laws. It came following the Valentine's Day massacre and other organized crime shootings as well as an attempted assasination on Roosevelt if I recall correctly.

US v Miller

https://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/files/ECM_PRO_060964.pdf

 

[VanceInWA]

Why the antis are winning in 20 seconds

Yup. One of the few genuine truths to come out of Hollywood.

 

[dancinghippos]

The left understood early that you control access to the news media, the entertainment media and the educational establishment to control what the country thinks. Get to know some people in the newsrooms. Maybe add polite respectful thoughts to the facebook pages of the local TV stations. Where others can see too.