JavaScript is disabled
Our website requires JavaScript to function properly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser settings before proceeding.
There is a bigger picture. It involves the concept of change vs. status quo. People are divided into two basic camps. One, where people are comfortable with things the way they are. The other consists of people who strive to improve, in their minds, the circumstances that control their lives. Those who seek change historically seem to be of a more driven character. Meaning, they agitate harder for their viewpoint. Which is consistent with the two basic mindsets. It's not just about guns, it's about human nature. Of course there are a great many nuances that influence this behavior.
Sorry fools, getting free sh!t does not mean things are improving.
 
Why are they winning? Rigged elections. Mail in voting? Oh that's totally bubbleguming legit. After they sent my green card wife and 16 year old daughters voter registration cards I saw exactly what their bubbleguming game was. Oregon is absolutely corrupt when it comes to elections. 30 years of progressive democratic rule here, do the bubbleguming math.
Certain states allow lawful permanent residents to vote in state and local elections.
Preregistration is an election procedure that allows individuals younger than 18 years of age to register to vote, so they are eligible to cast a ballot when they reach 18, the voting age for all state and federal elections.
 
I agree media favors them but I don't understand why we can't control the narratives in that medium?
I think we have tried, but then we get hit with channel strikes, disinformation check marks or outright bans.. because they control the mainstream platforms. That and big tech controls the app stores most of these up and coming middle ground or conservative channels/apps/platforms try to get downloaded or used on.

Not to mention this "ministry of truth" they attempted to create.. its still coming.. they just showed their hand too soon. Its shocking people still dont see whats gone on over the last 12 years. And its only getting worse.
 
I agree media favors them but I don't understand why we can't control the narratives in that medium?
Because by and large, the media (mainstream, at least - the ones who reach the most people) is liberal and left leaning.

The left has had decades to "march through the institutions" and they've focused on education and culture (hence the leftist bent of colleges and Hollywood/Disney, among others). Our institutions of higher learning are broken and graduate activists masquerading as journalists.

We now have people in top media positions who were raised on a steady diet of liberal nonsense and leftist idealism… and they control the narrative.

That's why.
 
Not to mention this "ministry of truth" they attempted to create.. its still coming.. they just showed their hand too soon. Its shocking people still dont see whats gone on over the last 12 years. And its only getting worse.
I know a lot of us here "get it" but, this guy really gets it! There is a movement that has been building for a long time, and unfortunately it is going to happen! How it erupts is yet to be seen but, it is coming!

I've said it before, History repeats itself!:s0155:
 
To be blunt, we have failed to articulate and/or show the cost/benefit ratio being in favor of civilian firearms ownership. Yes, the media fans the costs more. But even so, to many, the cost is not worth the benefit. Most do not see the need (and thankfully, most living in society will not need one in their lifetimes) and so they decide, why pay the cost when I don't need the insurance?

Sure, we can crow "rights" and "freedom" but really those arguments do not really win many over. People are pragmatic and when they see only the human life cost it is easy to be an anti. They see the cost in lives and grief, and what benefit do they see? Other democracies with stricter gun laws seem to have the same or better quality of life, so what does our 2A get us that others do not have? And we can say stuff like "I'm a citizen not a subject" but really, in day-to-day life, that is not convincing to many. Citizens and subjects live the same lives in the good times. And the prospect of bad times coming is not convincing enough. Do not get me wrong, by all means, if the argument works with your audience, please use it. I am not saying the argument from freedom/anti-tyranny is incorrect, just ineffective to many.

The best argument I have seen not from "freedom" is an argument for self-defense, articulated by Sam Harris in The Riddle of the Gun and his follow-up FAQ on Violence.

To me in particular, FAQ on violence #15 sums up the two defensible sides of the debate (direct link):
"It now seems to me that there are two ways of approaching this discussion that may, in fact, be irreconcilable. The first is to consider the ethical and practical case for guns as a means of self-defense. To make this case—or even to understand it—one must know something about how human violence evolves at close quarters, and one must care about specific examples (e.g. a young mother shoots a knife-wielding intruder). Here, it is easy to establish (and impossible to deny) that guns occasionally save the lives of good people who have every right to defend themselves and their families from malevolent lunatics. The second approach is to consider society as a whole, emphasizing the statistics on gun violence. Here, it is easy to establish (and impossible to deny) that in countries where nearly everyone has a gun, violence tends to be more lethal, and suicides and gun accidents more common.

Many people seem to think that the broader statistical case trumps the ethical case for self-defense. More guns = more murders and suicides. End of argument. From this point of view, anyone arguing for the primacy of self-defense appears to be standing in the way of societal progress. Consequently, many people believe that no civilian, no matter how responsible or vulnerable to violence, should be able to possess a weapon as powerful as gun—because any society that would make guns available to such people will, of necessity, be unable to control the sale of guns to dangerous, negligent, and suicidal people who shouldn't have them."

He does not agree that the broader statistical case trumps the self-defense case, but I will let you all read for yourselves.

In any case, two tools I hope are helpful to the people in your day-to-day life are:
1.) As someone else already mentioned, just taking people out to shoot. A lot of fear is placed in our collective conscience about firearms. Taking and familiarizing people with firearms removes a lot of stigma. Remind people that we live with dangerous items daily - knives and cars, and we give them not a second thought about using and keeping them.

2.) to highlight the practical benefits of civilian ownership. There was an old thread which highlights the defensive gun usages as a counter to the unfortunate offensive gun uses. The CDC itself estimated* 60k-2m defensive uses per year.
https://web.archive.org/web/2022041...gov/violenceprevention/firearms/fastfact.html (*after May 4, 2022, this page was updated to remove the reference to the 60k-2m in a study. This link references the version as of April 19th, 2022).

To be honest I am bleak on the outlook of gun rights in public opinion. Simply, to many, the potential offenses outweigh any other potential uses of firearms. We have a lot of education to do to turn that tide, if it's even possible.
 
In this country we don't have Ministries or Ministers.
Any one proposing such isn't just a commie, but a damn dirty rotten commie.
Remember what is the only good commie......

Joe
For those that don't know or are late to the party.....
Well........I'll just leave this here.



Aloha, Mark
 
We are losing because we defend but we don't counterattack. I'm not saying we counterattack with facts about guns. I'm saying we go after their record. Kids these days are hurting more than ever before and it has all happened on their watch.

The other thing is they attack us as a group. Which is BS since none of us was at Uvalde. We need to go after them as individuals, and hold them individually accountable. They have a tendency to turn on each other when this happens.
 
Last Edited:
Why are they winning? Here's my take:

1. Numbers are on their side. The majority of Americans do not have an intimate understanding of firearms, nor own a semiautomatic modern sporting rifle.

2. The news tells us that these modern sporting rifles are more dangerous and that there is no need for one.

3. There is a strong desire by everyone to stop these insane mass shootings.

4. Banning the tool that many school shooters use makes sense to the people who don't understand the intricacies of firearm effectiveness.

5. Thankfully, America suburbia is very safe, and truthfully, most people will live their entire lives without ever needing to defend themselves with a firearm.


What these people don't understand, is that when one person enters a school and intends to shoot, it doesn't matter what type of gun they have. If the cops don't storm in, nothing will stop them from killing many, many people. Virginia tech showed just how lethal 10 round magazines and a handgun can be. The Oregon shooting showed how deadly a 10/22 can be. The middle east constantly shows us how effective bombs can be.

If "common sense" gun laws worked, L.A., New York, Chicago, etc. would be safe havens from any sort of shootings.
 
50A4D5D8-47AC-47BF-9F0B-2DEA276055CB.jpeg
 
Q: Why are the anti's winning?

A: Crazy people committing mass shootings

:(
2nd "mass shooting" today at employers I think (Maryland plant). Isn't that 2 of these in the last three days? This is building into a crescendo unfortunately. Political will to pass a lot of new laws is going to be boiling over pretty soon. Already bought mags for future proofing. Was gonna buy a 6.5 CM or 6.5 PRC bolt gun but maybe now I will look at AR10s before they are banned instead. Sucks...

 
Last Edited:
I guess it depends on the what the definition of "winning" means to an individual, I think both sides of the 2A debate have won and lost skirmishes.
However, when I look at a chart showing the increase in the number of firearms sold in America between the years 2000-2020, the number of first time gun owners and the increase in the number of pro-2A federal judges, I do not reach the overall conclusion that the anti-firearm segment is winning.
 
Why are they winning? Rigged elections. Mail in voting? Oh that's totally bubbleguming legit. After they sent my green card wife and 16 year old daughters voter registration cards I saw exactly what their bubbleguming game was. Oregon is absolutely corrupt when it comes to elections. 30 years of progressive democratic rule here, do the bubbleguming math.
amen brah!!!
 
I guess it depends on the what the definition of "winning" means to an individual, I think both sides of the 2A debate have won and lost skirmishes.
However, when I look at a chart showing the increase in the number of firearms sold in America between the years 2000-2020, the number of first time gun owners and the increase in the number of pro-2A federal judges, I do not reach the overall conclusion that the anti-firearm segment is winning.
If we can't convert those FTGOs to 2A supporters or actively push them away because they don't align with the other conservative values that are associated with 2a support, those numbers don't mean a thing.

If we want to protect the 2A we need to make the 2A a non partisan issue. Demonizing Leftists/Liberals/Democrats doesn't help our cause. The younger generations and consequently the country as a whole are moving left, but they need not leave gun rights behind.
 
The amount of leverage, or political will, the anti gunners have is directly proportional to the number and severity of mass shootings. Without mass shootings we wouldn't even be having this discussion cuz anti's would never get that far in their attempts to ban guns.

Guess how british citizens lost their guns, legislation after mass shootings. Canada the same.
 
The 2A people can't even agree on platforms and cartridges, there's no way we'll come together when it matters. And that's why we lost our cake
 
No excuses, just an observation. Likely, most of us have at least one (or more) full time jobs. We have to in order to make ends meet. We pay our bills, respect authority, and honor our family and financial commitments. We work long hours to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table, which does not lend a lot of time for protests. In short we are adults with responsibilities. Who pays our mortgage while we are protesting? We have also been labeled racist domestic terrorists and have hostile media coverage on the 24hr news cycle that vilifies us at every turn.
Meanwhile...
The opposition enjoys grants and kickbacks, if not government handouts, subsidized food and housing, free phones and internet, and virtual immunity from prosecution for even the most violent of riots. They don't have to worry about food and housing because the get it nearly for free, therefore they don't work, don't have to worry about income or imprisonment, so they have all the time in the world to go to protests with a virtual endorsement to commit crimes from leaders and law enforcement. They also have a complicit media on their side.
In between we have the average Joe who has been emasculated and lobotomized via woke political correctness and who now believes that the founding fathers' resistance to tyranny to gain freedom and independence was wrong.

Sooner or later there will have to be a reckoning. Sooner or later it will become painful enough for even the densest person to wake up and act. The problem is that by the time the densest person finally wakes up, all of the reasonable and diplomatic choices have been exhausted or taken away from him and he is left with only violent action. The scary thought is that this has been their plan all along...to back people into a corner, take away their rights and all options for reasonable discourse, and when they resist with force, use it to justify more tyranny.

Can it be turned around? As with any major turning point in history, not without significant pain and sacrifice.
 

Upcoming Events

Redmond Gun Show
Redmond, OR
Klamath Falls gun show
Klamath Falls, OR
Centralia Gun Show
Centralia, WA

New Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Back Top