National Why Are The Antis Winning? Can We Turn It Around, If So How?

[arakboss]

By any honest account, 2A supporters are losing the battle of retaining firearm freedoms. From NFA and GCA to local restrictions, we have lost far more battles than we have won. Are the antis intellectually superior to us? Do they have greater determination? Do they have deeper pockets? Are they better collaborators? Are they better marketers of ideas? Are they better cheaters than us? Do they have a better ability to turn peoples emotions into support for their cause? Maybe they are better organizers? Are they more better at attracting youth to support their cause? Are they more successful at utilizing mainstream media to gain support for thier cause? Are their supporters more devoted to their cause? Are their arguments more persuasive to the citizens? Do they have great organizational structures with less infighting and competing than 2A supporting organzitions?

Somewhere along the line we have fell short and not met the challenges presented to us by gun grabbers both in the government and by the citizens. Why do you feel we have not more succesfully stood up to the challenges they have thrown our way? What can we do to reverse the momentum in the other direction?

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[Will_White]

 

[arakboss]

View attachment 1217771

Cool graphic which implies the cake grabbers are stronger and intellectually superior to the weak cake holder. Was that what doomed us?

 

[Will_White]

Cool graphic which implies the cake grabbers are stronger and intellectually superior to the weak cake holder. Was that what doomed us?

Lots of "compromises" that didn't actually get us anything. Our side yells "muh second ammendment" instead of actually proposing things that could work or creating actual compromise that's mutually beneficial.

 

[arakboss]

Lots of "compromises" that didn't actually get us anything. Our side yells "muh second ammendment" instead of actually proposing things that could work or creating actual compromise that's mutually beneficial.

2A supporters had the whole cake to start with. It would seem there would have been no reason to negotiate trading away any cake unless they were duped in some way.

 

[arakboss]

Why are they winning? Rigged elections. Mail in voting? Oh that's totally bubbleguming legit. After they sent my green card wife and 16 year old daughters voter registration cards I saw exactly what their bubbleguming game was. Oregon is absolutely corrupt when it comes to elections. 30 years of progressive democratic rule here, do the bubbleguming math.

Mail in voting didn't exist (to any large degree) when the NFA and GCA were enacted? I think there is more to blame than that.

 

[s1xty7]

I think the issue is one of logical thought and experience. Those that have seen hardship, experienced oppression, or can at least think logically about a scenario where not everything will work out, understand how precious and necessary our freedoms are and the need to defend them. Those that have had sheltered lives with their needs met and buy into the fallacy that everything will work out okay are the ones that see firearms as unnecessary because they don't see a situation where violence is needed to resolve a conflict. Gun control is driven by middle class housewives and righteous youth, funded by those that seek power and fear resistance. It's a perfect marriage of the naive and the controlling.

That's a way over simplified version that ignores many other facets of the issue.

 

[arakboss]

I think the issue is one of logical thought and experience. Those that have seen hardship, experienced oppression, or can at least think logically about a scenario where not everything will work out, understand how precious and necessary our freedoms are and the need to defend them. Those that have had sheltered lives with their needs met and buy into the fallacy that everything will work out okay are the ones that see firearms as unnecessary because they don't see a situation where violence is needed to resolve a conflict. Gun control is driven by middle class housewives and righteous youth, funded by those that seek power and fear resistance. It's a perfect marriage of the naive and the controlling.

That's a way over simplified version that ignores many other facets of the issue.

I believe this is a big factor and that antis capitalize on this all the time. I can't count how many times a person has said "nobody needs a weapon of war" or something simliar to that. I can imagine that if the people weren't living sheltered lives and needed a weapon of war to survive on a daily basis, that argument wouldn't be working very well.

Even in the most crime riddled cities I am betting a large contingent of the residents don't carry a firearm every time they leave the house. We definitely live sheltered lives in most parts of this country.

 

[cigars]

Mail in voting didn't exist (to any large degree) when the NFA and GCA were enacted? I think there is more to blame than that.

I don't disagree. Mail in voting was a crucial part of the incremental processes towards the 'fundamental transformation or America".

 

[arakboss]

I think the issue is one of logical thought and experience. Those that have seen hardship, experienced oppression, or can at least think logically about a scenario where not everything will work out, understand how precious and necessary our freedoms are and the need to defend them. Those that have had sheltered lives with their needs met and buy into the fallacy that everything will work out okay are the ones that see firearms as unnecessary because they don't see a situation where violence is needed to resolve a conflict. Gun control is driven by middle class housewives and righteous youth, funded by those that seek power and fear resistance. It's a perfect marriage of the naive and the controlling.

That's a way over simplified version that ignores many other facets of the issue.

I would say there are plenty of biological males (even NWFA members) who have little problems with the pieces of 2A cake we have already lost and wouldn't hesitate to give up more of it.

 

[titsonritz]

Are they winning or just making more noise?

 

[Will_White]

2A supporters had the whole cake to start with. It would seem there would have been no reason to negotiate trading away any cake unless they were duped in some way.

Other then the NFA that only got through because it was a tax (in an era when poll taxes were popular) "2A Supporters" gave it away. The NRA supported the GCA, Reagen signed the Hughes ammendment, and supported the assault weapons ban, Bush Sr. stopped imports, Trump banned bumpstocks, even just today 5 "Republicans" voted to continue to restrict our rights, that even NY congressman Kurt Schrader voted against.

 

[arakboss]

I don't disagree. Mail in voting was a crucial part of the incremental processes towards the 'fundamental transformation or America".

My problem with blaming the mail in voting is that we are not seeing a majority uprising against the freedoms being taken away. If the mail in voting was being corrupted to the point that minority position was being adopted due to mail in voting fraud, then we should have massive amounts of people in the streets questioning the results. I am not seeing it. We saw pretty much zero opposition to the NY package of firearm restrictions and very little opposition to the House package passed in DC today. There seems to be little opposition to any of these gun restrictions being passed.

 

[arakboss]

Other then the NFA that only got through because it was a tax (in an era when poll taxes were popular) "2A Supporters" gave it away. The NRA supported the GCA, Reagen signed the Hughes ammendment, and supported the assault weapons ban, Bush Sr. stopped imports, even just today 5 "Republicans" voted to continue to restrict our rights, that even NY congressman Kurt Schrader voted against.

Exactly, gun grabbers come in all flavors.

 

[arakboss]

Are they winning or just making more noise?

View attachment 1217775

They are winning and making more noise. Until the NFA, GCA, etc are tossed out they will be winning. They are obviously better at making more noise than us too. That will be demonstrated Saturday, when March For Our Lives has their events.

Edit: It will be interesting to see how many counter protest we have this year.

Small counter-demonstrations take place amid "March for Our Lives" rallies

Small counter-demonstrations took place in cities across the country as hundreds of thousands rallied under the banner "March for Our Lives"

www.google.com

 

[arakboss]

Other then the NFA that only got through because it was a tax (in an era when poll taxes were popular) "2A Supporters" gave it away. The NRA supported the GCA, Reagen signed the Hughes ammendment, and supported the assault weapons ban, Bush Sr. stopped imports, even just today 5 "Republicans" voted to continue to restrict our rights, that even NY congressman Kurt Schrader voted against.

Don't forget Trump's bumpstock fiasco.

 

[titsonritz]

They are winning and making more noise. Until the NFA, GCA, etc are tossed out they will be winning. They are obviously better at making more noise than us too. That will be demonstrated Saturday, when March For Our Lives has their events.

If they are winning then how do explain in 2002 there was only one constitution carry state and twenty years later there are 25?

 

[Will_White]

If they are winning then how do explain in 2002 there was only one constitution carry state and twenty years later there are 25?

You might be able to carry without a permit, but if all you can carry is a percussion revolver that's not winning.

 

[titsonritz]

You might be able to carry without a permit, but if all you can carry is a percussion revolver that's not winning.

Sounds like reality to me.

 

[arakboss]

If they are winning then how do explain in 2002 there was only one constitution carry state and twenty years later there are 25?

That is one area and good for us that the states have had that success. Hopefully we can carry that success to the federal level and get the federal laws repealed soon. And while we are waiting for that to happen we need to stop the new brace rules and frame/receiver rules from being adopted. And reverse the rule on bumpstocks and stop the attacks on triggers.