Why are so many gun owners scared?

[DuneHopper]

I was disappointed that anyone took the bait. The best response to his "poorly worded" question would have been to ignore him. There is no benefit in having a conversation with anyone so hostile toward the 2A Rights community.

I agree, however does the main topic not violate the rules ? Why is it still up if the idea was to instigate a response ? I took the bait so to speak, cause I am honest about how I feel about a situation. I also wanted to point out we can still respond to those curbing ownership by being polite and accurate yet obeying the letter of the rules which my response did exactly . Oh and every one have a nice day !

 

[DONOTBUGME]

only rules for some people I guess...

 

[etrain16]

I was disappointed that anyone took the bait. The best response to his "poorly worded" question would have been to ignore him. There is no benefit in having a conversation with anyone so hostile toward the 2A Rights community.

Why is that the best response? Because you don't want to talk to him, no one else should? It amazes me so many people assume someone is an anti-gun troll based on a simple post. Does it ever cross the minds of those here that what you're dealing with may not be an anti-gun troll, but rather a gun owner or someone just coming into guns that maybe hasn't previously mixed with the gun community - someone that honestly doesn't know why people want to carry? Someone with honest questions? And what happens? They get called names and shot down for asking.

I'd like to ask a question here - what possible use could the well-thought-out responses that were presented in this thread be of benefit in any way to the anti's???? If anything, the well worded, honest replies that didn't start with calling the OP a troll, are showing gun owners that have thought through the implications of carrying. They are showing there is more to the idea of carrying than just 'cause I want me a gun'. They are showing that gun owners have well reasoned, logical arguments. If anything these types of responses only counter the anti's statements and dispel the myth that gun owners are lunatic gun crazy psychos.

But I wonder what they would do with the responses where folks are calling them names? Acting like jerks? Well, I'll tell you, seems to me that that type of response/attitude is going to feed into the anti's campaign FAR better - they can use that to show that gun owners are jerks are not nice people, certainly not welcoming to those that may be wondering about guns and carrying for protection.

So if it bugs people here when questions like these are asked, if you don't want to give a kind response, then simply don't respond yourself. Why bother posting the "don't feed the trolls" stuff over and over again? To what end? To possibly drive away a potential newbie gun owner or a person with an honest question, simply because you don't like how the question was asked?

At one point in my life, some years ago, I did ask a very similar question to the OP's. Thankfully, I got some very good answers, and no one called me a troll. Who knows where I'd be today if I thought all gun owners were so harsh to newbies.

Joe's purpose for this forum is to present gun owners in a positive light in the hope of bringing more people into shooting and maybe helping to turn the tide of anti-gun sentiment. Jumping on every new poster that asks a question and labeling them as a troll certainly won't help our cause.

Unless I have really good information that someone is obviously a troll, I will continue to repay the kindness shown to me by those gun owners years ago that helped bring me into a place where I now carry daily and know far more about guns than I did back then.

 

[308]

Not trying to stir the pot here. But why is it that so many gun owners talk about personal defense situations with a given firearm? In my 40 years on this planet, I've never been in a situation where a firearm would even have been a consideration to use against another human being. I realize most media outlets sell fear, and a great majority of the weapons that people carry and own are for person assault of sorts. But I'm not at war, nor are they. And my wallet or $3000 car is not worth taking a life over, no matter what kind of scum the perp may be. Hell, legal fees would be much more substantial for the use of deadly force to protect anything I own than the item itself is worth.
I understand then the last thing (IMO) to protect is my person. Or those that I care for. But when? Where? Why? These things just don't happen. Am I really that lucky? That a situation that would truly justify killing another human being has never happened to me, or anyone I have ever talked to? It seems the majority of violent crime happens to those who are involved in that level of crime itself.
Why do so many gun owners invest so much thought and practice into the idea that they may have to someday "defend themselves"? I know this idea I spin will set off lots of fire on this forum. But it's just a discussion, an opinion I am curious about.
I am a gun owner, by the way. Yes, I have a CCP. Lots of "black guns" in my safe.
They are fun to shoot.

You are fortunate and apparently so am I. I have never had to draw down on someone, so I understand completely where you are coming from. Nothing illogical or trollish in you post that I can see.

I admit I carry because (1) I can, and (2) I believe we do not live in the same world as we did a few decades ago. Do people need a weapon to defend themselves occasionally? Yes, they do...an example?

Just yesterday my son texted me and said he was attacked by a large homeless guy in the parking lot of his apartment. He said he had a choice of stabbing the guy, or kicking him in the nuts and running up to his apartment; he did the later. The guy followed him then stopped and went away when he heard my son rack the action on the 12ga Mossberg I gifted him a few months ago.

That perp was going up to my son's apartment (where my 7-yr old grandson lives) to attack my son because he wouldn't give him money. The only thing that appears to have changed his mind was a certain sound we are all familiar with.

 

[etrain16]

I agree, however does the main topic not violate the rules ? Why is it still up if the idea was to instigate a response ? I took the bait so to speak, cause I am honest about how I feel about a situation. I also wanted to point out we can still respond to those curbing ownership by being polite and accurate yet obeying the letter of the rules which my response did exactly . Oh and every one have a nice day !

I continue to respond to posts like the OP in the hopes that they are honest questions by people that do want to know more about guns and the gun community. We need as many on our side as we can get. So what if we answer some questions that may be 'baited'? What's the worst they can do? Heck, this entire forum has hundreds of thousands of responses to so many questions - all they need to do is a search and the anti's could get anything they want.

Your response and others here have been positive and helpful. I wish everyone could approach it that way. The last thing we need to do is scare people off and create yet another anti-gun voter.

 

[etrain16]

You are fortunate and apparently so am I. I have never had to draw down on someone, so I understand completely where you are coming from. Nothing illogical or trollish in you post that I can see.

I admit I carry because (1) I can, and (2) I believe we do not live in the same world as we did a few decades ago. Do people need a weapon to defend themselves occasionally? Yes, they do...an example?

Just yesterday my son texted me and said he was attacked by a large homeless guy in the parking lot of his apartment. He said he had a choice of stabbing the guy, or kicking him in the nuts and running up to his apartment; he did the later. The guy followed him then stopped and went away when he heard my son rack the action on the 12ga Mossberg I gifted him a few months ago.

That perp was going up to my son's apartment (where my 7-yr old grandson lives) to attack my son because he wouldn't give him money. The only thing that appears to have changed his mind was a certain sound we are all familiar with.

I'm glad that worked out well for him.

 

[drs]

The "I love guns, but we don't really need them" attitude is a hallmark of insincerity. Message boards are used to monitor the pulse of a subject. Some entities are more nefarious than others with their gathered data. We cannot foresee the depths of depravity of those who have no respect for life. Call it biblical or social, it is war, they hate you and want you dead.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Etrain16 brings up a very good point here, and while I am some what guilty of making the troll comment my self, I have to admit I still dont believe our new friend is/was a troll! Whith that said, I would like to share something that happened to me as a young shooter. On leave, my brother's and I decided to take a trip to a real gun range to see what all the fuss was about. We stopped in at Douglas Ridge on a Saturday after noon only to find the gates locked! Now it was clear there was a shoot going on with all the noise and a lot over flowing with cars, but a locked gate? After a few moments pondering what to do now, this Old Codger walks out and gruffly asks us our business. I told him my brothers and I would like to check out the club and maybe get in a little shooting. In a very perturbed manor ( like we had interrupted the gospel edition of HeeHaw) he says we have to be members. Ok, how do we become members? you gotta fill out this here application and pay us a bunch of money. Ok, then what? then you gotta volunteer a bunch of time cleaning up and cutting the grass so's you can earn the right to shoot, Now run along cause I got important MAN stuff to do! Basically this dude had every opportunity to welcome a couple of fine upstanding youths to his club where we could have been shown and educated in a controlled and friendly environment the fine art of shooting. Instead, I will never twist a pinky toe on Douglas Ridge Property EVER! All because some Cranky Old Bastage didn't give two S%%&t's about a couple of nice kids that wanted to enter the world of shooting in a disciplined environment! I have heard others stories about this business, so It was no surprise my treatment mirrored theirs! My point is, that event could have turned us into anti's or just a couple of tree shooters with no discipline or responsibility! Thankfully, the U.S. Gubement saw fit to train my brothers and I in a sort of friendly way the art of shooting at a couple of very nice ranges!

 

[etrain16]

Etrain16 brings up a very good point here, and while I am some what guilty of making the troll comment my self, I have to admit I still dont believe our new friend is/was a troll! Whith that said, I would like to share something that happened to me as a young shooter. On leave, my brother's and I decided to take a trip to a real gun range to see what all the fuss was about. We stopped in at Douglas Ridge on a Saturday after noon only to find the gates locked! Now it was clear there was a shoot going on with all the noise and a lot over flowing with cars, but a locked gate? After a few moments pondering what to do now, this Old Codger walks out and gruffly asks us our business. I told him my brothers and I would like to check out the club and maybe get in a little shooting. In a very perturbed manor ( like we had interrupted the gospel edition of HeeHaw) he says we have to be members. Ok, how do we become members? you gotta fill out this here application and pay us a bunch of money. Ok, then what? then you gotta volunteer a bunch of time cleaning up and cutting the grass so's you can earn the right to shoot, Now run along cause I got important MAN stuff to do! Basically this dude had every opportunity to welcome a couple of fine upstanding youths to his club where we could have been shown and educated in a controlled and friendly environment the fine art of shooting. Instead, I will never twist a pinky toe on Douglas Ridge Property EVER! All because some Cranky Old Bastage didn't give two S%%&t's about a couple of nice kids that wanted to enter the world of shooting in a disciplined environment! I have heard others stories about this business, so It was no surprise my treatment mirrored theirs! My point is, that event could have turned us into anti's or just a couple of tree shooters with no discipline or responsibility! Thankfully, the U.S. Gubement saw fit to train my brothers and I in a sort of friendly way the art of shooting at a couple of very nice ranges!

Unfortunately, it's pretty easy to encounter folks like that just about anywhere - any range, any gun store, or just out in public. I'm a member of DRRC myself and have to date only met fine folks that have been helpful and welcoming. It's too bad that day that you encountered someone that didn't think through his actions and the repercussions it has had since that day. But I would caution you not to hold DRRC, any other range, any gun store, or even this forum responsible for the actions of one or even a few. It's impossible to get away from folks with poor attitudes or folks that just don't care if they piss someone else off.

I've belonged to a couple of churches over the years and without fail, there is at least one, sometimes a few, in every single church that just are so off-putting, that they scare away potential new members or seekers. It's sad, but there are some folks that just don't see the damage they're doing or the long term consequences it may have. And usually these folks get into positions, such as the gun counter at a store, where they can do more harm than if they just kept to themselves. To this day, I still have a hard time going into Curt's because of the way I've been treated (and ignored) more than once. Yet Curt's has a great reputation. But a single employee, member or person can do a lot of damage.

On behalf of DRRC, which I do not speak for in any official capacity, save for being an active member, I'm sorry you and your buddy got treated as you did. If you ever want to come back, I'm sure you could get that tour you're looking for - I may even be able to assist you with that.

 

[rick benjamin]

Years back, I took a concealed carry class at DRRC to see what it was about.
Didn't sign-up for the license, misplaced completion certificate.

Years later, spouse and I were in a PDX mall restaurant when a large group of zombie actors came through the mall and restaurant. I confess I became scared of that very large group of irrationally acting and dressed-up group, positioned myself between them and my wife.

2012-12-11 Watching news, eating dinner. Thinking about doing some Christmas shopping at Clackamas Town Center. !Flash! Town center active shooter! Shot of ice water into my chest. Fear even. Frosting on the cake, straw that broke the camel's back.

Attended and passed a CC class, applied for and received CC. Purchased several concealable handguns to try for fitment. Settled on the G27. Finally settled on a IWB holster. Changed my clothing style (waist 40 to 42) to accomidate the hardware.

I carry everywhere, concealed. One more tool in the tool box.
What sign? Didn't see a sign.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Unfortunately you are correct. But thankfully I had a wonderful experience my first visit to Tri County. Not only was I welcomed by the friendly staff, I was given a very warm welcome from the entire firing line of the service rifle comp that day, I was offered a Veterans discount, several members offered to pay a part of my dues, and it was an honor to be a part of that club, and I was welcome to participate when ever I wished! The same thing at Clark County Gun Club up in the 'Couve! You are correct that many people cause problems, it's a part of our daily lives, Unfortunately there are those in the Gun world that have no idea the damage done to Our Cause, The Gun Room in Portland has alienated so many young people, and like most here, I will never set foot in that business ether! I have at one time or another had it out with almost every Christian Church in the greater Portland area for the same reasons, one person who thinks they are better then you, thinks its there right to tell you how things should be, how you are not a good Christian unless you follow THERE advice! I better stop now!

 

[rick benjamin]

Etrain16 brings up a very good point here, and while I am some what guilty of making the troll comment my self, I have to admit I still dont believe our new friend is/was a troll! Whith that said, I would like to share something that happened to me as a young shooter. On leave, my brother's and I decided to take a trip to a real gun range to see what all the fuss was about. We stopped in at Douglas Ridge on a Saturday after noon only to find the gates locked! Now it was clear there was a shoot going on with all the noise and a lot over flowing with cars, but a locked gate? After a few moments pondering what to do now, this Old Codger walks out and gruffly asks us our business. I told him my brothers and I would like to check out the club and maybe get in a little shooting. In a very perturbed manor ( like we had interrupted the gospel edition of HeeHaw) he says we have to be members. Ok, how do we become members? you gotta fill out this here application and pay us a bunch of money. Ok, then what? then you gotta volunteer a bunch of time cleaning up and cutting the grass so's you can earn the right to shoot, Now run along cause I got important MAN stuff to do! Basically this dude had every opportunity to welcome a couple of fine upstanding youths to his club where we could have been shown and educated in a controlled and friendly environment the fine art of shooting. Instead, I will never twist a pinky toe on Douglas Ridge Property EVER! All because some Cranky Old Bastage didn't give two S%%&t's about a couple of nice kids that wanted to enter the world of shooting in a disciplined environment! I have heard others stories about this business, so It was no surprise my treatment mirrored theirs! My point is, that event could have turned us into anti's or just a couple of tree shooters with no discipline or responsibility! Thankfully, the U.S. Gubement saw fit to train my brothers and I in a sort of friendly way the art of shooting at a couple of very nice ranges!

One person twisted your shorts? Chill! Cranky Old Bastages have their days...
If it was who I think, he's retired AF and his body hurts after all the abuse it's had.

Saturday is a high volume day. You saw a parking lot full of cars?
Next weekend is the Burden Memorial Regional High Power Tournament (800-1000yards)
Consider some ignorant driving down that dirt road PAST the ROAD CLOSED SIGN into a lane of active rifle fire.
Happens. Members are issued electronic key cards.
.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

I was disappointed that anyone took the bait. The best response to his "poorly worded" question would have been to ignore him. There is no benefit in having a conversation with anyone so hostile toward the 2A Rights community.

Good plan! IGNORE!!!

 

[Libertas7]

I would like to say I think fear can be good, it could keep you aware and on your toes. As long as it doesn't control you (Like paranoia) it's beneficial.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Agreed! Fear is a healthy thing! It has kept me alive when nothing else would have! The great Eleanor Roosevelt once said; Do something that scares you every day! Fear makes you look around, fear makes you cautious, fear keeps you from doing things you know you shouldn't! The other side of the coin, Don't let fear drive you, don't let it consume you, fear leads to hate, hate leads to anger, and as we all know, That leads to the DARK SIDE!
May the force be with you!

 

[erudne]

Just because someone 'likes guns' does not mean they support the USC and BORs, plenty of bad guys love guns and Statists are notorious for turning their guns against unarmed civilians in their quest for Utopia. Socialists murdered more PPL than were killed in all the wars, died of disease in the 20th century and they almost always disarmed them first. Anyone who supports civilian disarmament is therefore a party to mass murder.

 

[308]

I would think wisdom to be a better term than fear. Wisdom being the correct application of knowledge.

Fear seems to manifest in a couple ways;

1) An immediate increase of neurochemical levels causing our limbic system to engage the fight/flight/freeze mode in a desperate and real situation, or...

2) A sort of self induced mental disorder where our brain focuses on something that has not yet happened to us (something that at this is only in the imagination) or in fact may never happen and yet we still focus on that thing only in our imagination.

With wisdom we can properly apply knowledge and apply vigilance when needed, then let it go when not needed. Fear tends to isolate and paralyze.

 

[Velzey]

I'm not scared, I carry the knowledge of every James Yeager YouTube video around with me...

 

[KEMOSABEJR1]

Not trying to stir the pot here. But why is it that so many gun owners talk about personal defense situations with a given firearm? In my 40 years on this planet, I've never been in a situation where a firearm would even have been a consideration to use against another human being. I realize most media outlets sell fear, and a great majority of the weapons that people carry and own are for person assault of sorts. But I'm not at war, nor are they. And my wallet or $3000 car is not worth taking a life over, no matter what kind of scum the perp may be. Hell, legal fees would be much more substantial for the use of deadly force to protect anything I own than the item itself is worth.
I understand then the last thing (IMO) to protect is my person. Or those that I care for. But when? Where? Why? These things just don't happen. Am I really that lucky? That a situation that would truly justify killing another human being has never happened to me, or anyone I have ever talked to? It seems the majority of violent crime happens to those who are involved in that level of crime itself.
Why do so many gun owners invest so much thought and practice into the idea that they may have to someday "defend themselves"? I know this idea I spin will set off lots of fire on this forum. But it's just a discussion, an opinion I am curious about.
I am a gun owner, by the way. Yes, I have a CCP. Lots of "black guns" in my safe.
They are fun to shoot.

Do you plan on getting side swiped in your car? NO! But you have auto insurance incase that happens. Same principle. I have been in 1 wreck in my life and it was the other persons fault. I have also had a gun pulled on me, once in my life. Not trying to be racist, but guess who both of them were? Tatoo-ed mexican wana be gang members. I don't know if they were gangsters, but they acted like it both times. The best insurance is the one that never gets used!

 

[oldcorpgunny]

Not trying to stir the pot here. But why is it that so many gun owners talk about personal defense situations with a given firearm? In my 40 years on this planet, I've never been in a situation where a firearm would even have been a consideration to use against another human being. I realize most media outlets sell fear, and a great majority of the weapons that people carry and own are for person assault of sorts. But I'm not at war, nor are they. And my wallet or $3000 car is not worth taking a life over, no matter what kind of scum the perp may be. Hell, legal fees would be much more substantial for the use of deadly force to protect anything I own than the item itself is worth.
I understand then the last thing (IMO) to protect is my person. Or those that I care for. But when? Where? Why? These things just don't happen. Am I really that lucky? That a situation that would truly justify killing another human being has never happened to me, or anyone I have ever talked to? It seems the majority of violent crime happens to those who are involved in that level of crime itself.
Why do so many gun owners invest so much thought and practice into the idea that they may have to someday "defend themselves"? I know this idea I spin will set off lots of fire on this forum. But it's just a discussion, an opinion I am curious about.
I am a gun owner, by the way. Yes, I have a CCP. Lots of "black guns" in my safe.
They are fun to shoot.

The fear that you refer to is a logical manifestation of the increase in the violence in crimes against both property and people. Contemporary culture shows little or no respect for the rights of others. We live in a time where abortion is just another form of birth control euthanasia by terminal patients is considered OK and thugs have shown they will kill you for a pair of tennis shoes. I was a cop for six years, back in the day when if I yelled "Halt" they did. Now, I would run the risk of being shot at. I was a Marine during the war in Vietnam. I've worked very hard for the things that I have and if a criminal wants to steal from he, he will do so at his own peril. I'm glad that you have an opinion on this subject. I just don't happen to agree with you. If I stumble across you in a gunfight and you're out of 9MM ammo, I'll be sure and ask if you're ready to take the life of those trying to kill you, before tossing you a mag or two (provided you're carrying a Glock 19.)