Why are firearms feared?

[tac]

Let's get sorted out before this thread goes any further with regard to self-defence in the UK. Because of the widespread LACK of privately owned firearms, in particular handguns of which there are VERY few [and those that there are have to kept locked up], everybody has the right in Common Law to defend themselves. If that means picking up the nearest object to hand, and braining/laying out/partially or wholly dismembering the malfeasant, then so be it. However, stopping when he is on the ground and hopefully unconscious is usually a 'good thing to do', as is calling 999 [you 911] to get police and maybe an ambulance. You are, however, not required to render any form of paramedical assistance, no matter how much blood he is leaking onto your carpet, particularly if you have defended yourself and your wife and family with the help of something sharp.

Having time to go to your gun cabinet, selecting a suitable firearm and THEN using it on the goblin will not go down well in court. Sad, but true.

However, there IS a bright side, as you'll see when I advise you that in the last few years SEVEN bad guys have been done to death by their intended victims, most often with whatever it was that they brought with them, and in each case the intended victim walked.

Initially, in accordance with the law in yUK, they were charged with manslaughter, a charge that was instantly dropped when the circumstances were made evidential in court.

One other point is that home invasions, daily events all over the US of A, are so passing rare here that they are almost unheard of, particularly by people with firearms. Our physical home security is generally of a far higher level than any of yours, with most homes having triple or quadruple security locks on front doors - no porches like you do, and an inbuilt reticence to leaving doors open like many of you do. Our double and triple-glazed windows, too, are secure bolted, even when part-opened for ventilation. Remember that a very high proportion of homes here in UK are solid double brick masonry or stone, rather than Tyvek and wood. Wooden/frame houses are NOT at all usual. Older houses are even better constructed, and around 50% of all dwellings in the UK still predate WW2.

tac

 

[The Heretic]

<SNIP>

No, I think the fear of guns is just a symptom of the loss of the will, the ability, to fight, to personally accept responsibility for yourself and others, and to turn over your safety to someone else. It's a sad state of affairs, and one I'm not sure we can come back from.

To a degree, I agree with this. There are other factors, and this coincides with those, including those that I mentioned, but your point is a higher level yet than those I made, and if I may, I will take it a step or two higher yet:

People don't want to take responsibility for their own safety, or their lives in general for that matter - they want someone else to take responsibility - i.e., they want to be relatively like children and government to be like their parents. As long as they get to do what they want to do - more or less - they are willing to give up some of those freedoms that they don't care about.

Being an adult, being responsible for your own life, for your actions, is hard work. It is even harder when you make mistakes, and/or when things go bad for you. It is a lot easier to just not have to think that you have that responsibility, that someone else does, that government or everyone else is there to help you out when things go wrong for whatever reason.

I've seen this on a very personal level; I have a family member that has taken this to the extreme and suffered the consequences of their actions, without taking any responsibility for them. In fact, I know a number of people like this at this level.

It is tough, but it is so much more satisfying and liberating to take that responsibility on your own shoulders. Unfortunately, fewer and fewer do, in no small part because those in power recognize this human nature trait, and they take advantage of it. It has gotten to the point where it is now increasingly unpopular to point this out, because people do not want to hear the truth, they want to believe the lies.

Those in power know they can get away with it most of the time, even if they get burned a little when things go massively wrong, they can usually shift the blame by pointing the finger at someone else (Muslims in general instead of radical fundamentalist terrorists, immigrants taking jobs instead corporations moving jobs overseas and tech replacing workers and other reasons why jobs go away, gun owners instead of criminals, and so on).

 

[etrain16]

People don't want to take responsibility for their own safety, or their lives in general for that matter - they want someone else to take responsibility - i.e., they want to be relatively like children and government to be like their parents. As long as they get to do what they want to do - more or less - they are willing to give up some of those freedoms that they don't care about.

Agreed to all points above, especially this one in particular. Guns are feared because of what they represent - not as dangerous tools, but as the ultimate symbol of personal responsibility. Owning guns is a responsibility and self-defense is a responsibility. Some people know they are first and foremost responsible for themselves, yet many others simply don't want that responsibility.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I actually don't think we have a problem with people in fear of firearms,what I think we have is a fear of the bad guys with firearms. There are slightly more armed Americans then we have had sence the end of WW2 and this is not what I would have expected given the numbers of fire arms purchases in the last decade or more. What is evident is that more gun owners are choosing to UP-ARM them selves AND seek training to be able to CC then at any time before now. Add in the hold the left has taken and they have advanced there agendas and ideas for there vision of utopia and we have these people telling us not to worry, the Poltizi and the Gybment will look out for us, Give up your arms, there is nothing to fear here!!! In general, I think the people have not increased there fear of the gun, but have increased there fear of not having a gun when something bad happens to them! The fact of the mater is that the numbers of people who are armed are about what they have always been, its the numbers of un armed who are now speaking out that has me worried, why are the Politzi not able to protect me? why has the Gubment not made my resident area safe? Why do I still have to live in fear of some one doing bad things to me or those around me?

 

[mjbskwim]

I would guess some of the fear is the people carrying them.
I can be afraid depending on if I know the person with the gun or not. And we know there are a lot of "idiots" out there and a lot of untrained folks carrying guns.
There's many things that make up the fear of guns.

 

[whiskeybill]

In defense of this couple, the Poor Britt's have a real fear of live munitions in there own back yards. The Nazi's dropped tones of stuff on them and they are still finding these nasty surprises all the time. The Disposal folks have to respond to every "find" as if it may be a big one, and not knowing what was found or if there might be more around, abundance of caution is the norm!

You do have a point, and I know it first hand. I was stationed in England in the mid 70's and there was a V-2 rocket found in a farm hedgerow. There have also been 500# bombs found. What was found in this young couples backyard amounted to nothing more than handgun / long gun ammunition. I would be concerned (but not completely freaked out) if I happened to stumble upon a "Bomb" in my yard, but handgun ammunition?? THAT is a stretch. It's still an example of just how indoctrinated against anything firearms those folks have become.

 

[tac]

You do have a point, and I know it first hand. I was stationed in England in the mid 70's and there was a V-2 rocket found in a farm hedgerow. There have also been 500# bombs found. What was found in this young couples backyard amounted to nothing more than handgun / long gun ammunition. I would be concerned (but not completely freaked out) if I happened to stumble upon a "Bomb" in my yard, but handgun ammunition?? THAT is a stretch. It's still an example of just how indoctrinated against anything firearms those folks have become.

WB - I have to agree with your, for the most part. A few years back the centre of a quite large city in the Midlands was sealed off because a spent .22Short case was found in a store doorway...it was a total hoot - seeing this senior LEO standing there on TV holding up this teeny little piece of brass in a clear evidence bag, holding forth on the dangers of approaching such an object, had me spraying my fish and chips over the carpet.

However, I have to report that most folks don't give a square root of SFA about guns, or shooters. In our rural county alone there are some 28,000 shotguns for a start - or rather, there are 28,000 shotgun licenses, each of which entitles you to have as many as you can afford. Add to that that there were some FORTY airfields during WW2, with all their associated bomb dumps...did they ALL get removed?

You tell moi.

As for the young couple, well, Sir, there are wimps everywhere, right?

tac

 

[chris61182]

I'm sure it's already all been said, but from my observations of the world and interactions with the anti-gunners and the general public, here it is in my own words...

For people who identify as "anti" the main causes are:
- Projection of their own violent tendencies.
- Media's efforts to cause/maintain moral panic.
- Political identity/hatred for the other team.

For the average fence sitter:
- Simple ignorance, they've never thought about it, and the simplest default reaction to them is to knee-jerk in fear.

 

[Craig O]

View attachment 289423

Stop Breeding.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I have been seeing a lot of people on both sides of the fence that have a NOT ME, IT'S NOT IN MY BACK YARD attitude towards all these things. Many do not care what is happening out side there own little slice of heaven, and so they do nothing, NOTHING! Some have armed them selves, but done nothing to train or even learn the very basics. Others will tell you that they are not in fear because the chances of something bad happening to them are so small, why do any thing? Exasperating if you ask me, I gave up years ago trying to spread the mantra of the Boy Scouts and BE PREPARED, or the Army motto, ADAPT AND OVER COME! As many of us here know, These Fears are very real and will only get worse long before there is a chance of getting better! Those very few of us here are the only ones who at least have a chance really! Some day real soon the bubble will burst and we will soon see the True Fear!!!

 

[Ura-Ki]

I think I can boil this all down to one simple fact! The people who fear guns fear the loss of power over the people because they know that those WITH guns will not likely give power to those who wish to take it with out a major fight!!!

 

[Oldtrader3]

Speaking of dangerous, look at the average dumb, witless, selfish, penny pinching, Asian Canadian? They are deathly afraid of any gun but will drive down here to Washington, fill their car with gas, plus 4 or more 5 gallon plastic containers (in the car) full of 87 octane gasoline and drive around with it to save a couple bucks! This gasoline has the latent explosive power, were they to get in an accident and douse the catalytic converter, of a 155mm howitzer shell but they are afraid of a little bitty, .380 pistol? Get real morons!

 

[mjbskwim]

I have ask this.
Why don't you like to be swept with a weapon? Even if the person holding it doesn't have their finger on the trigger?
The will not go off unless the trigger is pulled. Why be afraid?
Why 2as the guy in the video a moron for looking down the barrel of the loaded gun when his finger is off the trigger?
The gun won't go off unless the trigger is pulled. Will it?
Us that like guns are afraid of some thing about them to with no reason.
Flame on but it is true

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Speaking only for myself , I don't like being "swept" with a gun , whether someone"s finger is on the trigger or not.
I get the fact that they won't go off if the trigger isn't pulled.

But three reasons for my dislike come immediately to mind:
One I have been shot at . And that makes me not like looking at the wrong end of a gun.
Two Sh!t happens . And I don't like taking chances.
Three maybe the most practical reason , it just ain't polite.
Not trying to be rude or flame.

I don't worry to much over being "swept" as it were.
Have had it happen too many times at various gun shows.
And I wouldn't call myself fearful of it , but I don't like it just the same.
Andy

 

[boogerhook]

Amen. The Germans gave up guns when their leader Hitler said they should. In doing so, they also gave up their liberty and civil rights.

Not true. The German Jews did give up their guns. But on a grand scheme, firearm regulations actually relaxed under Hitler.

 

[boogerhook]

There is a psychological concept for the irrational fear of guns (hoplophobia). It's called the "fallacy of misleading vividness". It is best explained by looking at the fear of flying in context of airplane crashes. Although, statistically speaking, airplane travel is by orders of magnitude safer than traveling by car, there are many people who suffer from "flying angst" because they have the vivid imagination of an airplane crash with hundreds of dead people and no control when it happens. Similarly, violence is way down compared to the old days of the Wild West, however, with all the media attention to shootings, mass shootings, "accidents" involving children, there is a vividness of death and destruction that gets to people that are not into guns. As a gun owner you are also exposed, but you treat your guns with respect, knowing what they can do and you control the aspects you can. Then guns become your tool and your friend. It boils down to responsibility. If you can handle it, you are good. If you can't you'll want to outsource.

 

[Ura-Ki]

There is a psychological concept for the irrational fear of guns (hoplophobia). It's called the "fallacy of misleading vividness". It is best explained by looking at the fear of flying in context of airplane crashes. Although, statistically speaking, airplane travel is by orders of magnitude safer than traveling by car, there are many people who suffer from "flying angst" because they have the vivid imagination of an airplane crash with hundreds of dead people and no control when it happens. Similarly, violence is way down compared to the old days of the Wild West, however, with all the media attention to shootings, mass shootings, "accidents" involving children, there is a vividness of death and destruction that gets to people that are not into guns. As a gun owner you are also exposed, but you treat your guns with respect, knowing what they can do and you control the aspects you can. Then guns become your tool and your friend. It boils down to responsibility. If you can handle it, you are good. If you can't you'll want to outsource.

Dead on!

 

[David Bowman]

Fear of inanimate objects of any kind is a form of social retardation and stunted mental development. This fear is fed by a media that has convinced every soccer mom that little boys who play with weapons are psychopaths and in need of medication.

We are the masters of the tools and not the other way around.

 

[PaulB47]

The German Jews did give up their guns. But on a grand scheme, firearm regulations actually relaxed under Hitler.

I know the gun prohibitionists try to push this line, but it is pretty questionable. According to Aaron Zelman's book "Gateway to Tyranny" (available from JPFO), the Nazi weapons law in 1938 did the following:
-----------------
Jews were barred from the firearms business (after Kristalnacht they were barred from owning any weapons)

Handguns got special treatment.

Nazi Party organizations were exempted from controls.

Anyone "who it is feared may endanger public security" could be barred from owning any kind of weapon.

It was prohibited to possess .22 ammo with hollow points.
------------------

Yes, one might characterize this as loosening gun control, but I'll bet the people who make that claim don't mention it was only so for Nazis! And that the people who most needed guns, the Jews, were barred.

Zelman of course does make the point that the Weimar Republic, the previous democratic regime, created the bulk of the gun control laws that subsequently aided the Nazis in their plans.

 

[greydog111]

It is an object or tool.

People don't talk about gasoline like it will all of a sudden catch fire and blow thier car up.

No ones afraid of kitchen knives, axes, garden tools, machetes etc but they are all equally if not more lethal if not handled properly.

I can understand religious or personal beliefs against violence and guns, maybe even someone who was victimized by someone with a gun, but people that are "afraid" of guns seems extremely unreal to me.

Next person that tells me that they are afraid of guns in person, I will politely offer to get into a boxing ring with them in one corner, a rifle in another and me in a third corner with a wooden baseball bat and ask them which they are actually afraid of more...

Look up Hoplophobia! A clinical "fear of firearms" syndrome.