Why a 9mm over .40 S&W?

[halmbarte]

last time I checked, there isn't a war/conflict going on in the NW. I doubt that many people who are forced to use a gun to defend themselves "know" that they are going into a fight.

as for the OP, while I have never fired a shot another human being and I hope I never will, I have every confidence in my EMP 9mm.

If somebody is beating my door down at o'dark-thirty, it's the rifle I'm going to grab first, not a pistol.

Pistols are great, if you don't have a real gun.

H

 

[Quick_Draw_McGraw]

i carry and have carried .380, 9mm, .357, .40, and .45acp. any of them is better then nothing and to me i can shoot just fine with my S&W Sigma .40 so it will stay on my hip just as it has for the last 4 years.

 

[glock.40]

I have a Glock 22 with a 9mm conversion barrel for it, and in a full size gun, the difference is really quite small. But I think if I were to compare a G26 and a G27 I would be singing a different tune.

 

[michael mayhew]

the washington county police officer that shot the pitbull last year twice with his little 9mm parabellum rounds just to have the dog run away is enough for me to never buy a 9mm,if it can kill a dog with 2 shots to the vitals i dont want to pack it out fishing in the woods where i might encounter a cougar?wolf?bear?why own a gun that cant even kill a dog?
40 cal is minimum for me,besides i dont want the 9mm over penetration to go through the target and hit an innocent person.
9mm is gangster....40 cal+is a defense weapon....just the facts.

 

[michael mayhew]

hi kLewis,



most duty ammo are jacketed hollow points with a soft lead core...

really?i heard the geneva convention act requires all military and law enforcment to not use hollow point ammo because it is generally not survivable and the mission is to stop an attacker without taking the life?
has anyone else heard this or is this hogwash?

 

[titsonritz]

the washington county police officer that shot the pitbull last year twice with his little 9mm parabellum rounds just to have the dog run away is enough for me to never buy a 9mm,if it can kill a dog with 2 shots to the vitals i dont want to pack it out fishing in the woods where i might encounter a cougar?wolf?bear?why own a gun that cant even kill a dog?
40 cal is minimum for me,besides i dont want the 9mm over penetration to go through the target and hit an innocent person.
9mm is gangster....40 cal+is a defense weapon....just the facts.

hi kLewis,

most duty ammo are jacketed hollow points with a soft lead core...

really?i heard the geneva convention act requires all military and law enforcment to not use hollow point ammo because it is generally not survivable and the mission is to stop an attacker without taking the life?
has anyone else heard this or is this hogwash?

First, it was not the Geneva Convention but rather the first Hague Convention of 1899 (a second one was held in 1907) in which the contracting parties agreed to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body. Second, the aforementioned conventions deal with international laws of war, as in military, it has zero to do with law enforcement. And third, the United States did not sign the agreement but they adhere to it because our NATO allies did sign it.

Sorry but both of your above posts reek of misinformed BS.

Here, in case you're actually interested in learning something instead of propagating false internet rumors.
Military Wound Ballistic History

 

[coop44]

no matter what experts say, I still go for the .40. I love my 229, as far as "follow up" shots, all I have to say is, "whatsa matter, you couldn't hit it the first time?"

 

[22many]

First, it was not the Geneva Convention but rather the first Hague Convention of 1899 (a second one was held in 1907) in which the contracting parties agreed to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body.
Second, the aforementioned conventions deal with international laws of war, as in military, it has zero to do with law enforcement. And third, the United States did not
sign the agreement but they adhere to it because our NATO allies did sign it.

Sorry but both of your above posts reek of misinformed BS.

Here, in case you’re actually interested in learning something instead of propagating false internet rumors.
Military Wound Ballistic History

Ahhh. That's why I like you titzonritz. Always there with actual facts to disclaim someone elses bs.

 

[skydiver]

It's a simple as this:

Beliefs + myths + facts + emotions + knowledge + lack of knowledge + what "they" said + politics + religion = THE BEST ONE!

 

[farpolemiddle]

The only 40 cal I have had was a CZ40B. Fit my hand like a glove and combined two of my favorite gun designs. Priced well. Hated the caliber and sold it to a friend. Snappy round that didn't offer anything over 9mm +P other than reduced capacity and higher costs and will never be a substitute for 45 Auto. Probably the most pointless caliber ever. The versatility of 10mm on the other hand justifies it's existance the only reason I haven't gone to 10mm is I have small hands and find the grips on most of them to be a little long front to back. The one and only thing that I like about the 40 is the ability to switch back and forth with 357 sig(which I can't really get on board with because once again 9mm +P and 10mm cover it).

 

[titsonritz]

It's a simple as this:

Beliefs + myths + facts + emotions + knowledge + lack of knowledge + what "they" said + politics + religion = THE BEST ONE!

Well said. Certainly not the lowest common denominator approach but sadly pretty accurate.

 

[Grommit327]

The only 40 cal I have had was a CZ40B. Fit my hand like a glove and combined two of my favorite gun designs. Priced well. Hated the caliber and sold it to a friend. Snappy round that didn't offer anything over 9mm +P other than reduced capacity and higher costs and will never be a substitute for 45 Auto. Probably the most pointless caliber ever. The versatility of 10mm on the other hand justifies it's existance the only reason I haven't gone to 10mm is I have small hands and find the grips on most of them to be a little long front to back. The one and only thing that I like about the 40 is the ability to switch back and forth with 357 sig(which I can't really get on board with because once again 9mm +P and 10mm cover it).

I love how people compare 9mm +P to a standard .40S&W load. Here are some numbers from Buffalo Bore ammo that show max loads for all 3 calibers...

9mm 115g JHP 1400fps and 500ft/lbs at muzzle

.40s&w 155g JHP 1300fps and 582ft/lbs at muzzle

.45acp 185g JHP 1150fps and 543ft/lbs at muzzle

With that being said I think you should use what you are comfortable with and can put on target reliably and consistently. And use good JHP ammo since all 3 will achieve sufficient penetration

 

[Gunner3456]

I use 124 gr 9mm. One interesting thing I've found in research on the web is that while the +p is faster, it expands a very little bit more. In so doing, it doesn't penetrate nearly as far, even with or without denim layers over the gel. Things that make you go hmmmm. Here's just one chart for Speer Gold Dot. Sorry I don't have more links, but it's consistent with what I've found.

I don't buy +P or load for it because I don't see the advantage, and it gives more kick at the gun.

<broken link removed>

 

[ThemGunsThough]

I own one of each and I prefer 9mm because of the cheaper ammo and more ammo capacity (generally) in magazines. Also, if a "bad guy" sees a gun, i'm sure they're not going to read what caliber it is on my side.

 

[Riot]

Ask the officers in LA what they think of that 9mm. I'm sure after 44 minutes into the standoff with two bank robbers some old cop dog was probably wishing he still had a 357 mag on his hip.

Pros:
Less recoil
Cheaper ammo
Slender frame for CC
More mag capacity

Even with all that I'd still take the 40 over the 9.

 

[Gunner3456]

Ask the officers in LA what they think of that 9mm. I'm sure after 44 minutes into the standoff with two bank robbers some old cop dog was probably wishing he still had a 357 mag on his hip.

I'll bet they were wishing they had M-16's.

 

[JGRuby]

As far as the two bank robbers in LA - they were wearing bullet proof vests and equipment - I doubt very much wether a 9mm. 40, 45 or even a 357 was going to stop them unless there was a lucky shot. Even the police weren't as heavily protected as the two bank robbers were - what was needed was a 30 caliber rifle - namely 308 or 30-06 to stop them properly. The police that stopped those two got weapons from a nearby sporting store. To me this LA bank robber scenario is a bad situation for almost any handgun. I do not feel that it proves a point one way or another.

James Ruby

 

[Gunner3456]

One was wearing full body armor including legs. They had hardened plates in their vests. The police finally severed the spine of one with a 5.56 rifle and the perp committed suicide. The other perp was shot 29 times in the legs with an M-16 from under a car and bled to death.

All of the police handguns and a police shotgun were ineffective against the body armor.

 

[drew]

As far as the two bank robbers in LA - they were wearing bullet proof vests and equipment - I doubt very much wether a 9mm. 40, 45 or even a 357 was going to stop them unless there was a lucky shot. Even the police weren't as heavily protected as the two bank robbers were - what was needed was a 30 caliber rifle - namely 308 or 30-06 to stop them properly. The police that stopped those two got weapons from a nearby sporting store. To me this LA bank robber scenario is a bad situation for almost any handgun. I do not feel that it proves a point one way or another.

James Ruby

I completely agree that this is a poor example to use to argue for any handgun caliber. This was a case of bringing a pistol to a rifle (machine gun) fight. The criminals were wearing body armor and shooting fully automatic rifles that capable of penetrating the officer's body armor. The officers were severely outgunned. Officers acquired rifles and SWAT arrived.

 

[farpolemiddle]

I love how people compare 9mm +P to a standard .40S&W load. Here are some numbers from Buffalo Bore ammo that show max loads for all 3 calibers...

9mm 115g JHP 1400fps and 500ft/lbs at muzzle

.40s&w 155g JHP 1300fps and 582ft/lbs at muzzle

.45acp 185g JHP 1150fps and 543ft/lbs at muzzle

With that being said I think you should use what you are comfortable with and can put on target reliably and consistently. And use good JHP ammo since all 3 will achieve sufficient penetration

I don't get too caught up in the ft/lbs game. It is good to know but in all hosesty do you think someone is going to take that 9mm to the chest and walk away but get hit in the same spot with a 40 cal and fall over dead? I have shot all 3 of those calibers back to back and the 40 is harder to keep on target(Loaded that hot you might as well just get a 10mm and have the versatility).

There is no magic Handgun Caliber that will knock people down like a laser. They are all a compromise to a good rifle and even they won't put people down if you don't shoot them where it counts. Does 40 cal have more stopping power than a 9mm? Sure. Enough to justify the reduced capacity, higher cost, and snappy recoil? Nope. I myself will stick to .357. Everything else is just what makes America great, choices.