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Whether it be ATF, local law enforcement, or some other entity. The minute they step in my door. They will be filled with holes. Nobody is taking my guns. I will not live in fear, nor will i comply with the bulls*** laws being made by fools who dont know the difference between their a** and their elbows. Come and try. Fu** around and find out.
I appreciate the sentiment, but the words you just used will bring the LEOs knocking at some point. Don't challenge them. They are too big and powerful. Speak softly and carry a big stick. Don't become a target; become an effective fighter.
 

RedCardinalSeven

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ATF created secret & illegal gun registry & Biden plans to use it...

Biden is bad enough without making up falsehoods about him. This article is fake news.

The 2016 GAO report, titled "ATF Did Not Always Comply with the Appropriations Act Restriction and Should Better Adhere to Its Policies", cited in the article does not say that the ATF created a gun registry--secret, illegal, or otherwise. According to the GAO, of the four ATF data systems they audited "2 fully comply and 2 did not always comply with the appropriations act restriction prohibiting consolidation or centralization of FFL records." They also say that the ATF came back into compliance in 2016 on the two data systems where they were not compliant. And since the report is from 2016 the name "Biden" appears exactly nowhere in its 98 pages and the AFF article doesn't provide a shred of evidence that Biden plans to use the (apparently non-existent) ATF gun registry.

Would Biden and some ATF execs like a national gun registry? I'm sure they would but let's stick to the truth. The truth is this article hyperbole and lies spun around a 2016 report and little else. The report could have actually been used in a good way but "America's Freedom Fighters" just couldn't resist acting like "Progressive" media manipulators and liars.

Here's what could have been said in a useful, truthful, and informative article: The GAO looked at only four out of sixteen ATF data systems and found compliance problems with 50% of them. If the rate of non-compliance for the remaining data systems was the same then that means there were six more data systems where the ATF was non-complaint. Finding non-compliance in half of the systems audited ought to be a red flag that would lead to a compliance audit of every system but there's no indication in the report that GAO was authorized to go further than they did and "America's Freedom Fighters" express no interest in this angle whatsoever.
 
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JBatt

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They are going to TAX the crap out of us, make it so you cant have insurance of any kind yet you are required to have insurance, no homeowners? No Mortgage! No car or health insurance? Your employer may need proof of you not owning a gun,Digital certificate maybe?? Sound familiar??They may even go so far as to seize your home. They will use Corporations who will aide and abed in the sinister unconstitutional efforts. They will continue using different varients in going after manufacturing of firearms,ammo etc and will drive that drive the cost to the outer universe as well, just look what has happened already. I'm also thinking they will restrict the mining of materials in the name of "Sustainability" wink wink..Oh Ghee be green you know you cant keep releasing all that carbon into the atmosphere. This is a global effort with a lot of money and power behind it... Unfortunately they just took a giant leap forward in the learning curve of how to mandate and restrict the civilian population in using emergency powers. The bottom line is that people give up when the going gets tough enough and when you add the pressure of potentially losing everything unless you comply, people will comply just to maintain. This is when civil war breaks out more than likely....
 

RedCardinalSeven

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Did you miss the part where I said they would have to cut gun regulations by 25 percent?
No, I did not miss that part. I don't see it as a worthy or workable goal. If you have the political power to roll back 25% then why stop there? What are the grounds for capitulating on the remaining 75%? If you don't have the political power to roll back any then why set the bar so low?
You and I are on the same, exact page. There is a strategic plan under OPERATION RESIST TYRANNY.
Who came up with this Operation Resist Tyranny and who is implementing it? I see the Charter but what are the campaign details? I'd never heard of it before I read your earlier post.
 
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Biden is bad enough without making up falsehoods about him. This article is fake news.

The 2016 GAO report, titled "ATF Did Not Always Comply with the Appropriations Act Restriction and Should Better Adhere to Its Policies", cited in the article does not say that the ATF created a gun registry--secret, illegal, or otherwise. According to the GAO, of the four ATF data systems they audited "2 fully comply and 2 did not always comply with the appropriations act restriction prohibiting consolidation or centralization of FFL records." They also say that the ATF came back into compliance in 2016 on the two data systems where they were not compliant. And since the report is from 2016 the name "Biden" appears exactly nowhere in its 98 pages and the AFF article doesn't provide a shred of evidence that Biden plans to use the (apparently non-existent) ATF gun registry.

Would Biden and some ATF execs like a national gun registry? I'm sure they would but let's stick to the truth. The truth is this article hyperbole and lies spun around a 2016 report and little else. The report could have actually been used in a good way but "America's Freedom Fighters" just couldn't resist acting like "Progressive" media manipulators and liars.

Here's what could have been said in a useful, truthful, and informative article: The GAO looked at only four out of sixteen ATF data systems and found compliance problems with 50% of them. If the rate of non-compliance for the remaining data systems was the same then that means there were six more data systems where the ATF was non-complaint. Finding non-compliance in half of the systems audited ought to be a red flag that would lead to a compliance audit of every system but there's no indication in the report that GAO was authorized to go further than they did and "America's Freedom Fighters" express no interest in this angle whatsoever.


You wrote more about it than the article
 

arakboss

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Copy that. I think the precedent is set. If the Federal statute is held to be constitutional. Any state statute that seeks to nullify it is irrelevant.

Unless the Sherrifs are charged for the State infraction by the State. Then the Feds would likely claim the Supremacy Clause and the Sheriffs would claim Qualified Immunity. The Feds would have the Jurisdiction changed and get a favorable ruling for themselves and the local LEOs. But I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, or even play a lawyer on TV.

These 2A Sancuary laws can work if the local LEOs abide by them, and then use Posse Comutatus to deputize every gun owner in the county.

In Wyoming the Governor can do it, by calling up the Milita (every citizen 17-70 years of age) for a muster.
"and then use Posse Comutatus to deputize every gun owner in the county."

This idea comes up now and again. Many 2A supporters oppose this idea because they worry these newly deputized citizens would become unruly vigilantes and a liability for the Sheriff dept among other reasons. My question is could a Sheriffs dept deputize a citizen within a very limited scope? Requiring the citizen only to maintain arms for example and thereby avoiding some of the reasons why 2A supporters might not like this route.
 
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"and then use Posse Comutatus to deputize every gun owner in the county."

This idea comes up now and again. Many 2A supporters oppose this idea because they worry these newly deputized citizens would become unruly vigilantes and a liability for the Sheriff dept among other reasons. My question is could a Sheriffs dept deputize a citizen within a very limited scope? Requiring the citizen only to maintain arms for example and thereby avoiding some of the reasons why 2A supporters might not like this route.

I think so. In fact they (Sheriffs) could even require training and a code of conduct.

I have an acquaintance who distrusts the Gov so much that if there is a muster called in Wyoming, he will show up with his worst rifle in case it is a trick. He even calls POS rifles 'Muster Rifles'. LOL. In the past Posse Comitatus was even used to defend against militias and mobs, admittedly they are rare occurrences, but the State of Wyoming decided it had no use for mobs or private militias. So as a result, in Wyoming non-Governmental Militias are illegal due to the State's Constitution (Accepted and Given Standing by the US Congress BTW).

In fact the only militia that is a legal militia in Wyoming is as defined there, and it is 100% under the Governor's control. In fact the State is effectively setup as a 2A Sanctuary from its inception. Without intent perhaps, but still so in IMO. I believe any Wyoming Citizen could legally speaking, defend his 2A rights as a State Authorized Militiaperson, and as such were exempt from any 2A infringing Federal Statute.

Posse's are a county thing everywhere as far as I know. So I definately would advise everybody to get to know more about their local Sheriff and what their position is regarding the 2A and Posses. Get involved and make sure you have one that is worthy of your support. Same with Prosecutors, Judges, Councilpersons, and while you're at it Schoolboards
 
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I think so. In fact they (Sheriffs) could even require training and a code of conduct.

I have an acquaintance who distrusts the Gov so much that if there is a muster called in Wyoming, he will show up with his worst rifle in case it is a trick. He even calls POS rifles 'Muster Rifles'. LOL. In the past Posse Comitatus was even used to defend against militias and mobs, admittedly they are rare occurrences, but the State of Wyoming decided it had no use for mobs or private militias. So as a result, in Wyoming non-Governmental Militias are illegal due to the State's Constitution (Accepted and Given Standing by the US Congress BTW).

In fact the only militia that is a legal militia in Wyoming is as defined there, and it is 100% under the Governor's control. In fact the State is effectively setup as a 2A Sanctuary from its inception. Without intent perhaps, but still so in IMO. I believe any Wyoming Citizen could legally speaking, defend his 2A rights as a State Authorized Militiaperson, and as such were exempt from any 2A infringing Federal Statute.

Posse's are a county thing everywhere as far as I know. So I definately would advise everybody to get to know more about their local Sheriff and what their position is regarding the 2A and Posses. Get involved and make sure you have one that is worthy of your support. Same with Prosecutors, Judges, Councilpersons, and while you're at it Schoolboards
The one BIG problem with states doing this is MONEY. Every time the Fed wants to force a state to listen and they will not you get the carrot and stick. Feds just hold out a bag of cash. Say do what we say you can have the cash. Don't go along with us and we will not only take back this bag of cash, we will take a LOT more. So the law makers then suddenly decide they want to do what they were told. They do not want to watch as the local voters suddenly kick them out of office because they can't support them any more.
 
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No, I did not miss that part. I don't see it as a worthy or workable goal. If you have the political power to roll back 25% then why stop there? What are the grounds for capitulating on the remaining 75%? If you don't have the political power to roll back any then why set the bar so low?

Who came up with this Operation Resist Tyranny and who is implementing it? I see the Charter but what are the campaign details? I'd never heard of it before I read your earlier post.
I guess I'd be wasting your time to answer your questions, but maybe not the time of others who are genuinely interested.

The fact is, we don't have the political power (nor will we have in the short term, demographically speaking) to do what we want done. It is utterly foolish to argue what will or won't work in an open forum, so let me be blunt with you:

The right, especially on the issue of gun Rights, takes two steps forward and three steps back. They back down, compromise, and play defense. Then we have the critics who proclaim that something he is totally unfamiliar is unworkable. Do you see the irony there?

"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." Proverbs 18 : 13

Gun owners, as a group waste more time fighting each other than they do the enemies of Liberty and Freedom. As for myself, I spent several decades proving what was possible and, in many cases, what would happen if patriot type people followed a given course. Despite the fact that history proved me right, it means NOTHING. So, regardless of who constitutes a part of Operation Resist Tyranny, unless they fail, you are writing based upon ignorance.

Oh, if the patriots had the power we could repeal gun control in one fell swoop. But, let's face it. When Donald Trump went into office, he had a Republican House and Senate. He failed to get anything done. His accomplishments came by way of Executive Orders and those were being repealed the very moment Biden walked away after being sworn in. You had that advantage and you criticize me?

In fighting a strategic war, you do not go up against an adversary and try to trade blows with them one on one. You dismantle their machinery a little at a time. America was lost on the installment plan. You have two choices today: physically fight back OR fight back via the political and legal avenues. Imagine you're in a ring with an opponent and you have to wrestle them knowing they are much bigger and much stronger than you. Talk and bravado may sound good, but are of little use to you in the fight. If you have to wrestle someone to beat them, you go to basics. Your opponent has five points of balance: two arms, two legs, and the head. immobilize one point of balance and you can win. It works the same way in a political battle.

Operation Resist Tyranny is the work of several people with a lot of practical legal and political experience. They are working right now to set up a website, line up people willing to teach supporters how to fight back via the political and legal avenues of redress. At the heart of ORT is something called PROJECT DEFUND TYRANNY. The left wants to defund "police." Let's start with defunding tyrants at the federal level. The plan behind ORT is to start with workable ideas that the left will be hard pressed to oppose. THAT is why we don't go off half cocked, talking trash about getting rid of all unconstitutional gun laws. You don't want the left to oppose you. You want them to inadvertently HELP you. And, barring that, you don't give them a reason to go to the polls.

I have to be vague because the left monitors these sites. ORT has no leadership; it doesn't ask you for money. The enemies of Liberty cannot kill an idea. PROJECT DEFUND TYRANNY will be only ONE idea that will be unleashed. The Charter and Proclamation of the Rights of Man is the starting point. If you are going to talk the talk, you should walk the walk. The Charter is NOT a petition nor a plan for a new government. It is a demand that the government make good on the guarantees in the Constitution. If they cannot do that, it is our Right to withdraw from the social contract known as the Constitution. If you're not willing to support that, you are not willing to fight. The Charter is much like the Magna Carta or the Declaration of Independence. It IS a workable plan because, historically, it's the way it's always been done.
 

RedCardinalSeven

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I guess I'd be wasting your time to answer your questions, but maybe not the time of others who are genuinely interested.
I'm not sure why you're so touchy and judgmental. I expressed my opinion and asked you some questions about a project you brought up. If you and your allies can figure out how to Constitutionally roll back gun laws then I say more power to you in that endeavor.

So, regardless of who constitutes a part of Operation Resist Tyranny, unless they fail, you are writing based upon ignorance.
Yes, which is exactly why I asked you questions.

Oh, if the patriots had the power we could repeal gun control in one fell swoop. But, let's face it. When Donald Trump went into office, he had a Republican House and Senate. He failed to get anything done. His accomplishments came by way of Executive Orders and those were being repealed the very moment Biden walked away after being sworn in. You had that advantage and you criticize me?
How did I criticize you? By not sharing your opinion and having faith in ORT? Do you think you're above criticism?

As I said above, if you and your allies can figure out how to Constitutionally roll back gun laws then I say more power to you in that endeavor.
 
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Oh, if the patriots had the power we could repeal gun control in one fell swoop. But, let's face it. When Donald Trump went into office, he had a Republican House and Senate. He failed to get anything done. His accomplishments came by way of Executive Orders and those were being repealed the very moment Biden walked away after being sworn in. You had that advantage and you criticize me?
Indeed. 2020 was the best darned chance for real change with what, 435 House Seats and 35 Senate Seats up for grabs. Best chance to throw the lot out and start anew but no...people would prefer to keep the same liars and charlatans in and just whine about it while doing nothing.
 

RedCardinalSeven

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Indeed. 2020 was the best darned chance for real change with what, 435 House Seats and 35 Senate Seats up for grabs. Best chance to throw the lot out and start anew but no...people would prefer to keep the same liars and charlatans in and just whine about it while doing nothing.
Unless you live in a large Democratic-run city you only get one vote so which people would you have "throw the whole lot out" and how would they do that? What would you have people do rather than "just whine"?
 
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Who will take our guns?
Useful Idiots. If'n they get dead in the process, that only fuels the confiscation rhetoric, clown-laws, and foments public sentiment against guns.
 
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Follow an unconstitutional order and keep my pay, pension, and benefits, or defy it and lose it all. That decision will be rather easy for a lot of people. I expecting people “employed by the government” to not follow unconstitutional government orders is wishful thinking.
 
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