Who Chose Fat Elvis As Our Spokesman? Salem Rally 01-19-14 :/

[SunTzu]

From the preacher that started the show and told us we were wrong when we thought we were going to get away without going to church today, to the the Elvis guy that thinks every bad acid trip he ever took was a conversation with god, to the politician that held up a bible and said it was what our laws should be based upon...I just wasn't sure who I was supposed to be offended by more. Then there was the fat guy with the rebel flag. I am not sure which I was bothered more by...the flag or the fact he was wearing short pants in winter. We get it. Fat people don't get cold.

I missed the opening sermon and wasn't paying attention to the politician other than thinking it was a hackneyed attempt to bolster support. Maybe elvis was in a diabetic coma during these visions???

 

[MarkAd]

bikers

Really bonehead you think biker should not be a rally's. Your a bigoted narrow minded porcine creature.
I am a biker. I earned my title on the roads of america. Dirt roads, city roads, mountain pass so black at night headlights were near useless. I am a biker and proud to be one.

"Marketing wise, separating 2A and pro gun perspectives from religion and conservatism would be very beneficial."
Lets just separate your heart from your body and see if it lives. You can not remove faith and conservative values because you are a godless creature seeking only the parts of the constitution that suit you views. To do so you condemn the whole body to failure.

 

[oli700]

Lol, this place reeks of armchair quarterbacks.....what I thought about what I saw is irrelevant but what I think about some of these post is that not a one of you had the sand to say a damn thing to anyone's face about anything posted here.

Fact is they did something you are not capable of doing, they stood up in front of you and spoke their mind to you.......and you stood there and took it.
What is your counterstrike to the great offence they bestowed upon you?......text, anonymous , faceless text
I sure didn't agree with everything I heard and saw but what you all are doing is a worse offence then anyone on your $hit list because they are the actions of anonymous cowards that would rather bitc# and moan than to remain silent and step up to the plate and show everyone how it's done, since your all so adept at pointing out what shouldn't be done from the safety of your home....
Don't like the sign, how about telling a person what you think? Don't like the speakers? jJump up and speak.....that guy was there last year, how come none of you prepared a speech this year because he didn't change.....no, instead you smile and a nod, run right home to the computer then grow balls
....proud your mothers must be, and trust me I would straight up say it to your face, and you would stand there and take it

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Lol, this place reeks of armchair quarterbacks.....what I thought about what I saw is irrelevant but what I think about some of these post is that not a one of you had the sand to say a damn thing to anyone's face about anything posted here.

Fact is they did something you are not capable of doing, they stood up in front of you and spoke their mind to you.......and you stood there and took it.
What is your counterstrike to the great offence they bestowed upon you?......text, anonymous , faceless text
I sure didn't agree with everything I heard and saw but what you all are doing is a worse offence then anyone on your $hit list because they are the actions of anonymous cowards that would rather bitc# and moan than to remain silent and step up to the plate and show everyone how it's done, since your all so adept at pointing out what shouldn't be done from the safety of your home....
Don't like the sign, how about telling a person what you think? Don't like the speakers? jJump up and speak.....that guy was there last year, how come none of you prepared a speech this year because he didn't change.....no, instead you smile and a nod, run right home to the computer then grow balls
....proud your mothers must be, and trust me I would straight up say it to your face, and you would stand there and take it

Having the courage to be a fool doesn't make it any less foolish. If organizers spent less time giving the mic to extremists then more people would be willing to speak at these rallies. I will not excuse their exclusionary behavior.

 

[oli700]

Having the courage to be a fool doesn't make it any less foolish.

point taken and agreed, just sometime I would like to see people back up what they type....I know a lot will/would/did but a lot only find courage in a keyboard and I just have zero respect for that

 

[DMax]

If you say that in order to be pro-gun you must accept Conservative politics and religious views you will find a lot of people leaving your voting block. Conservatives are not the only people who support the 2nd Amendment, and they do not own that side of the argument. They cannot dictate to the rest of us a political, social, or religious agenda. If they try to do that they will find themselves alone. Currently there are many other groups that support the 2nd Amendment. A large number of Libertarians and moderate Democrats are on this side of the argument as well. When you present the kind of things that were presented today at the rally as being the pro-gun community you alienate all those other potential supporters, as well as providing ammunition to the anti's. If we're going to save the 2nd Amendment we need to divorce it from the strictly Conservative image that was presented today.

Nobody is dictating, I was responding to someone indicating taking out conservatives out of the gun conversation, at least that's how I interpreted it. I agree that based on what happened was not the most productive Great then the others that don't like it should step up and organize it and run it the way they want, but you don't see any other groups doing it do you. In this world using to much toilet paper offends someone. I just don't care about who gets offended anymore cause this country has turned into this group and that group when we are all Americans. Antis will always find something to attack on even if they have to make it up as they go along. This just proves pro gun supporters are not unified and that will be the down fall. End Rant

 

[Audrey]

Praying publicly is the opposite of going and praying in your closet. Matthew 6:5-6, amongst other references, are relevant. Everyone is free to practice religious publicly, of course. I just find it interesting how the most common religion in the US is so commonly mis-practiced based on the Bible. This is a side track, sorry about that.

To be more on-topic: I want to make my point more clear. I am not saying you need to disassociate your heart from the body or mind from the soul, or anything like that. I am saying that promoting pro-gun sentiment in a way that appeals to conservatives is not productive. It is a redundant method and garners no new support. To actually grow pro gun opinions you must go outside of the existing conservative base for those opinion holders. People that vote along conservative lines for any reason are already voting pro gun. It will be much more challenging to influence a person to entirely change their mental paradigm from liberal to conservative all for the sake of gun rights. It would be easier and more productive to disassociate gun rights from religion, Republicanism, and conservatism, so that liberals currently writing off gun rights as "crazy right wing stuff" actually take a moment to consider it. Anything short of that is a circle jerk.

 

[Jumpkix]

This was my first time attending any kind of political rally and was probably close to the youngest person there. Here's a few things I happen to notice:

-OFF set up a table, but they had a horrible location with little signage. These were the people that I really wanted to talk to.
-Speakers at this event had a tough job. It's impossible to tailor a message to such a diverse group of people, but most did a decent job of sticking to the purpose of the rally.
-Other speakers tended to rant/tell very long anecdotes that had nothing to do with the rally.
-Most of the speakers were not very engaging. I attended this event to meet people and learn about what I can do to preserve and protect my constitutional rights. If it were not for the friendly people at OFF, neither would have happened.
-The event was well attended by veterans. Thank you all so much for your service to our country.
-Most everyone there seemed to have the good intention of wanting to protect the 2A. However, there were a few people there that were a very bad representation of the cause. I'm not going into specifics; you know exactly who I'm talking about.

Overall, the event was so-so. I think it would have been more productive if the main focus was on what we as individuals can do to stand up for our rights. Also, let me be clear about a few things: I believe in God with all that I am, I love America and I love my guns. Bloomberg and Feinstein can suck it! But be careful about bringing up religion at such an event, and be careful about open-carrying 3+ firearms on your person. I'm not saying you shouldn't do either, just be careful.

 

[Jumpkix]

Praying publicly is the opposite of going and praying in your closet. Matthew 6:5-6, amongst other references, are relevant. Everyone is free to practice religious publicly, of course. I just find it interesting how the most common religion in the US is so commonly mis-practiced based on the Bible. This is a side track, sorry about that.

To be more on-topic: I want to make my point more clear. I am not saying you need to disassociate your heart from the body or mind from the soul, or anything like that. I am saying that promoting pro-gun sentiment in a way that appeals to conservatives is not productive. It is a redundant method and garners no new support. To actually grow pro gun opinions you must go outside of the existing conservative base for those opinion holders. People that vote along conservative lines for any reason are already voting pro gun. It will be much more challenging to influence a person to entirely change their mental paradigm from liberal to conservative all for the sake of gun rights. It would be easier and more productive to disassociate gun rights from religion, Republicanism, and conservatism, so that liberals currently writing off gun rights as "crazy right wing stuff" actually take a moment to consider it. Anything short of that is a circle jerk.

Well said, Audrey. I agree that it's more important to get someone who disagrees completely to think about issues from a different perspective than to reinforce ideas that someone already believes in.

 

[erudne]

The Tea Party gatherings had a bunch of Obama infiltrators swinging Confederate Battle Flags and the like, Obama has an office of Propaganda and Bloomie has stated he has "sent PPl" to various states, all a coordinated effort w/MSM playing their role.
Make these PPL identify themselves and run background checks using wireless internet on the spot

 

[BAMCIS]

.........Obama has an office of Propaganda.......

Yeah, and it is headed by the Minister of Propaganda, Jay Carney.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

The NRA doesn't do rallies, they are not grassroots and in reality are a for-personal-profit business.. sorry to burst bubbles but the real national 2nd Amendment group is GOA

I'm a bible believer but organized religion is a scam

 

[SunTzu]

Lol, this place reeks of armchair quarterbacks.....what I thought about what I saw is irrelevant but what I think about some of these post is that not a one of you had the sand to say a damn thing to anyone's face about anything posted here.

Fact is they did something you are not capable of doing, they stood up in front of you and spoke their mind to you.......and you stood there and took it.
What is your counterstrike to the great offence they bestowed upon you?......text, anonymous , faceless text
I sure didn't agree with everything I heard and saw but what you all are doing is a worse offence then anyone on your $hit list because they are the actions of anonymous cowards that would rather bitc# and moan than to remain silent and step up to the plate and show everyone how it's done, since your all so adept at pointing out what shouldn't be done from the safety of your home....
Don't like the sign, how about telling a person what you think? Don't like the speakers? jJump up and speak.....that guy was there last year, how come none of you prepared a speech this year because he didn't change.....no, instead you smile and a nod, run right home to the computer then grow balls
....proud your mothers must be, and trust me I would straight up say it to your face, and you would stand there and take it

as a matter of fact I did tell the people around me that i did not approve of some of the speakers' words or overall presentation. and yes, most of the speakers weren't too bad but the ones that were really soured the event. as far as running up there and booing someone off the steps "face to face" i don't think that it's a good idea to spark an aggressive confrontation at an armed, peaceful rally. also, that was my first rally so i really didn't know what was even going on at first and was confused by what sounded like a TROLL DOING A FILIBUSTER rant about spiritual visions.

since you laid down the gauntlet in challenge i will speak so long as you do. when is the next rally? how do i sign up to speak? my message will be clear, concise and free of conspiracy-theories or mystical religious experiences. THOMAS PAINE wrote Common Sense not a rambling story about Jesus or angels appearing to him in a vision and "common sense" is what this movement needs.

To wit: legal black-rifles didn't increase crime, black rifles are rarely even used by criminals, mag bans don't reduce crime, states with lax gun laws don't have more crime than states with strict gun laws and (most important) average americans owning guns are the last defense of personal freedom (freedom from tyranny and also freedom via protecting oneself and family). we need to show america that we are hard-working, intelligent, reasonable people that love their families and care about their communities...

^ so who feels that this message would be improved by including stories about angelic visions or lengthy sermonizing???
also, should i get diabetes and Super-Villain Hair???

 

[Stomper]

Lol, this place reeks of armchair quarterbacks…..what I thought about what I saw is irrelevant but what I think about some of these post is that not a one of you had the sand to say a damn thing to anyone’s face about anything posted here.

Fact is they did something you are not capable of doing, they stood up in front of you and spoke their mind to you…….and you stood there and took it.
What is your counterstrike to the great offence they bestowed upon you?......text, anonymous , faceless text
I sure didn’t agree with everything I heard and saw but what you all are doing is a worse offence then anyone on your $hit list because they are the actions of anonymous cowards that would rather bitc# and moan than to remain silent and step up to the plate and show everyone how it’s done, since your all so adept at pointing out what shouldn’t be done from the safety of your home….
Don’t like the sign, how about telling a person what you think? Don’t like the speakers? jJump up and speak…..that guy was there last year, how come none of you prepared a speech this year because he didn’t change…..no, instead you smile and a nod, run right home to the computer then grow balls
….proud your mothers must be, and trust me I would straight up say it to your face, and you would stand there and take it

Actually brother, I was an Infantry Drill Sgt. for 3yrs. (the normal tour is/was 2yrs.) and can melt your face with my snarl alone, if I chose to...

HOWEVER, that being said, don't confuse being polite and not wanting to publicly humiliate a person in front of hundreds (perhaps thousands) with being an "armchair puzzy". I wanted to walk up and beatch-slap that obnoxious old guy who talked over the first MC with the Pledge of Alleigence... Rude azz-hole!

I showed much restraint, and practiced many a face-palm!!

 

[tiggers97]

Overall, the event was so-so. I think it would have been more productive if the main focus was on what we as individuals can do to stand up for our rights. Also, let me be clear about a few things: I believe in God with all that I am, I love America and I love my guns. Bloomberg and Feinstein can suck it! But be careful about bringing up religion at such an event, and be careful about open-carrying 3+ firearms on your person. I'm not saying you shouldn't do either, just be careful.

I agree. Sometimes people will take advantage of a rally to get a "captured audience" to preach their message. The organizers should do their best to weed out those speakers who cannot/will not stick to the primary purpose of the message.

Otherwise we start looking like the occupy movement. They started with one message "make those who caused the financial mess pay for what they did". But it very quickly degenerated into something so completely different that the original message was left stuck to the back of a urinal in a seedy truck stop. I don't think we are anywhere near that (yet), but when we have so many people who strongly support the 2nd amendment from a broad-diverse political background I think it makes sense that we stick with that and not get bogged down in non-2A issues.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Similarly-themed speech was given at the WA rally last year, where a speaker started railing about abortion and Bible in schools during a 2A rights rally. It felt completely out of place and detrimental to the message, but the guy didn't go on too long with it. Sounds like your guy did.

Anyone got pictures of this guy? Obviously I was not at the OR rally, being from WA and all...

I don't remember that in Oly last year, I do remember someone saying "your unions are evil" (I was still a union member at the time) and "bury your ham radios" becuase *mumbles* bomb will take out your cell phones.......

I get that a large number of people (including myself) who are gun rights supporters are religious and believe in god, I get it. I get that maybe an invokation or starting prayer is probably not a problem (even the Washington state senate starts with an invokation) but the constant religous droning and "we need to govern america off the bible, and I see 20 foot angels on the side of I-5" is kinda outta place. however good news is the capitol is always open for a religous rally if you wish to come back.... but can we garner support for the 2A during a 2A rally? radical concept I know....

Maybe we can put a zap collar on the speakers, and when they go off topic, give them a warning beep, and when they say to watch for 20 foot angels give 'em all the juice that battery has......

 

[EMNofSeattle]

The Tea Party gatherings had a bunch of Obama infiltrators swinging Confederate Battle Flags and the like, Obama has an office of Propaganda and Bloomie has stated he has "sent PPl" to various states, all a coordinated effort w/MSM playing their role.
Make these PPL identify themselves and run background checks using wireless internet on the spot

You: 'excuse me, i need your name and date of birth for a background check'
me: I'm here for a gun rally in a public park, kick rocks

back to the drawing board there......

 

[Mikej]

Praying publicly is the opposite of going and praying in your closet. Matthew 6:5-6, amongst other references, are relevant. Everyone is free to practice religious publicly, of course. I just find it interesting how the most common religion in the US is so commonly mis-practiced based on the Bible. This is a side track, sorry about that.

To be more on-topic: I want to make my point more clear. I am not saying you need to disassociate your heart from the body or mind from the soul, or anything like that. I am saying that promoting pro-gun sentiment in a way that appeals to conservatives is not productive. It is a redundant method and garners no new support. To actually grow pro gun opinions you must go outside of the existing conservative base for those opinion holders. People that vote along conservative lines for any reason are already voting pro gun. It will be much more challenging to influence a person to entirely change their mental paradigm from liberal to conservative all for the sake of gun rights. It would be easier and more productive to disassociate gun rights from religion, Republicanism, and conservatism, so that liberals currently writing off gun rights as "crazy right wing stuff" actually take a moment to consider it. Anything short of that is a circle jerk.

You sure talk purdy Audrey!

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Really bonehead you think biker should not be a rally's. Your a bigoted narrow minded porcine creature.
I am a biker. I earned my title on the roads of america. Dirt roads, city roads, mountain pass so black at night headlights were near useless. I am a biker and proud to be one.

"Marketing wise, separating 2A and pro gun perspectives from religion and conservatism would be very beneficial."
Lets just separate your heart from your body and see if it lives. You can not remove faith and conservative values because you are a godless creature seeking only the parts of the constitution that suit you views. To do so you condemn the whole body to failure.

I rest my case.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Nobody is dictating, I was responding to someone indicating taking out conservatives out of the gun conversation, at least that's how I interpreted it. I agree that based on what happened was not the most productive Great then the others that don't like it should step up and organize it and run it the way they want, but you don't see any other groups doing it do you. In this world using to much toilet paper offends someone. I just don't care about who gets offended anymore cause this country has turned into this group and that group when we are all Americans. Antis will always find something to attack on even if they have to make it up as they go along. This just proves pro gun supporters are not unified and that will be the down fall. End Rant

We could be unified if so many of those of a politically Conservative bent didn't insist or assume that everyone else needs to agree with them on non-2A issues in order to be on the pro-gun side of the issue. This was NOT a Conservative rally. It was a gun rights rally, and people need to understand that not all pro-gun people are OK with fundamentalist religion and Conservative politics. That's what creates the disunity about which you're complaining. This is not the talk-radio Conservative echo chamber. We're not bobble-heads or ditto-heads out here. How do you ever expect to change the mind of a middle of the road, moderate voter on gun control, when you represent that people who are pro-gun are OK with racism, religious condemnation, and thuggery? I'm as pro-gun as it gets, and those people put even me off. Thanks to events like this I can't even talk to people about gun rights without defending myself from accusations of being a Conservative, religious, violent, racist nut job. That's the damage that's being done. Better no events than events like this one.

It doesn't matter what the "real" meaning of the Confederate flag is. The vast majority of the public sees it as a racist symbol these days. It doesn't matter that those "bikers" have hearts of gold and help little old ladies across the street. The image in the minds of most of the public is that of violent, angry, rebellious sociopaths. It doesn't matter that the religious speaker had the best of intentions. The vast majority of the public hears the first couple of sentences then rolls their eyes and tunes out whatever else is being said. So when these people and symbols are presented as the pro-gun crowd, is it any wonder we have no credibility?