Whitworth Muzzleloader

[Andy54Hawken]

Nope not putting him down ... he was a indeed mechanical genius ... Just no prior experience in gun making...
No slight to him intended...my comment of "Not bad for a guy..." was tongue in cheek.
Andy

 

[tac]

At the Great exhibition in 1851 it was clear that Joseph Whitworth was the foremost mechanical engineer of his day when he won more awards than any other exhibitor. In 1867 at the Paris Exhibition Sir Joseph Whitworth won three bronze medals for his machine tools and one of only five 'Grand Prix' awards won by British engineers. At the London International Exhibition he won a silver medal in 1873 and a bronze in 1874. In 1853 Joseph Whitworth was appointed to serve on the Royal Commission to visit the New York International exhibition. He was so impressed by their working practices and their willingness to use labour saving machinery that on his return he united with George Wallis and wrote 'The Industry of the United States in Machinery, Manufacturers and Useful and Ornamental Arts'.

 

[Vintage rules]

Collecting & shooting vintage firearms has been my passion for past 50 years, below is a cased best grade Whitworth I owned awhile back. Age issues has slowed down my rifle shooting so am selling last of my two favorite hunting & competition rifles. Have owned these for about 35 years, both are original big bore Jaegers in exceptionally nice condition with excellent bores.
One is a Danish Jaeger in .70 cal., the other is an Austrian Jaeger in .58 cal., both will come with my loading data , mold, balls & patches..For some reason website says it does not recognize the downloaded photos as photos ? Maybe try posting photos later in a new link if there is any interest.
Plan to post them for sale/auction on one of the major national firearms websites in the next few days.
Chuck

 

[DunRanull]

Just a couple of points about the new Pedersoli Whitworth repro.

1. It does NOT represent any kind of Whitworth rifle used in the WoNA. It has three bands - the real deal was technically a 'short rifle', and had only two bands. It does, in fact, replicate the military match rifle used by civilians or members of the various 'Volunteer' units that provided the rationale and raison d'etre of the original National Rifle Association, based at Wimbledon Common ranges.

2. The term 'sniper' was NOT used during the WoNA, nor for many years afterwards. The correct nomenclature is 'sharpshooter'.

I have yet to see one of Pedersoli's new guns, but I HAVE written extensively on the subject over on <broken link removed> under the heading of Whitworth rifle. I'm unlikely to ever see one, either, since IMO they are very overpriced here in UK, almost $1800, in fact. Anybody who wants the real deal will, of course, have to part with many times that amount, but the genuine and original Parker-Hale rifles [NOT the EuroArms version] may still be found for around a $1000 or so, and are far better, IMO, than Pedersoli's version. But then, I would say that, right?

What is this "WoNA" you so blithely prate of? You wouldnt be meaning the "Late Insurrection" aka the "Late Damned Southern Rebellion", by any chance? We hopes not, my precious, we certainly hopes not... our memories are long and we remembers who our friends were, yes we remembers!

 

[DunRanull]

Well I'd have the early guns covered...
Andy
View attachment 384439

You have some real eye-candy there Andy... beautiful wood and steel, really past my ability to give adequate compliment!Looks like a lifetime of collecting. Your gun room must be a climate-controlled walk-in vault!

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Thanks ... many of the guns just "live " in my library ...ready to be shot or studied.
Andy

 

[BillGabby1]

Well I'd have the early guns covered...
Andy
View attachment 384439

I hate you Andy!
Darn what a collection! Put an m where the r is.
Gabby

 

[tac]

What is this "WoNA" you so blithely prate of? You wouldnt be meaning the "Late Insurrection" aka the "Late Damned Southern Rebellion", by any chance? We hopes not, my precious, we certainly hopes not... our memories are long and we remembers who our friends were, yes we remembers!

My late great-grandfather used what was left of the family fortune, small to start with, to support the British interests in the WoNA, IOW, the Confederacy. He, like many other people living here at the time, bought capacious amounts of Confederate Bonds, which were used later to set light to fires in the grate of the family home, said family having been reduced to the penury of having a home with but a single fireplace by reason of the Confederacy having come second in the conflict, their financial institutions rendered worthless as a result.

I hope that my opinion of your recent inter-necine conflict will not make for a troublesome ride on this site.

I will, of course, remove myself from it, if this should be the case.

Cordially Yrs.

tac

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

My late great-grandfather used what was left of the family fortune, small to start with, to support the British interests in the WoNA, IOW, the Confederacy. He, like many other people living here at the time, bought capacious amounts of Confederate Bonds, which were used later to set light to fires in the grate of the family home, said family having been reduced to the penury of having a home with but a single fireplace by reason of the Confederacy having come second in the conflict, their financial institutions rendered worthless as a result.

I hope that my opinion of your recent inter-necine conflict will not make for a troublesome ride on this site.

I will, of course, remove myself from it, if this should be the case.

Cordially Yrs.

tac

Sorry about the family fortune. It is a fact that wars affect even countries not directly involved and even their citizens in negative ways. Do you have any bonds left? I would be interested in seeing scans of some.

 

[DunRanull]

tac, no worries, if all rebel sympathisers on this board were censured, the place would shut down for lack of interest

 

[BillGabby1]

My late great-grandfather used what was left of the family fortune, small to start with, to support the British interests in the WoNA, IOW, the Confederacy. He, like many other people living here at the time, bought capacious amounts of Confederate Bonds, which were used later to set light to fires in the grate of the family home, said family having been reduced to the penury of having a home with but a single fireplace by reason of the Confederacy having come second in the conflict, their financial institutions rendered worthless as a result.

I hope that my opinion of your recent inter-necine conflict will not make for a troublesome ride on this site.

I will, of course, remove myself from it, if this should be the case.

Cordially Yrs.

tac

Hey TAC no need to get upset, many of us non text sort seldom resort to caps mainly because we don't understand them, and it can be a bit annoying trying to figure out what you are talking about, we just can't find them in our dictionaries. So if it isn't too much trouble please type out the words for us slow OLD guys.
Thanks,
Gabby

 

[tac]

As I understand it the whiteorth used whitworth rifling which was a musket ball with a ridge around its circumference that would be placed in the slot in the barrel. Kind of the reverse of how rifling is done today. One of the first use of bullet spin to cause bullet stabilization. It was not very practical.

Sir, you are thinking of the Brunswick rifle, that was issued for a short time to the British infantry. It was not a success, and soon replaced by the pattern 42 musket. This in turn was replaced by the Enfield musket, and then by the Enfield rifled musket that shot the Minie bullet. This saw its first action in the Crimean War of 1855/56.The Whitworth rifle was trialled by the School of Musketry at Hythe, Kent, and by selected unit or two, and found to be way too slow to 'reload and very prone to fouling. It was relegated to the use by the newly-formed Volunteer force as a target rifle, and it was in this form, and as a very accurate sporting rifle, that it found its place.
The idea that it could be used as a sharpshooting rifle was the brainchild of an unknown person, but was a good one. Only around 120 or so ever made it to the USA, something that the Union had cause to be grateful for.

Tac

 

[tac]

Hey TAC no need to get upset, many of us non text sort seldom resort to caps mainly because we don't understand them, and it can be a bit annoying trying to figure out what you are talking about, we just can't find them in our dictionaries. So if it isn't too much trouble please type out the words for us slow OLD guys.
Thanks,
Gabby

WoNA = War of Northern Agression.

IOW = in other words.

Hope this helps. Us old folks need all the help we can get, right?

By the way, I'm 71.

tac

 

[JRuby]

Sir, you are thinking of the Brunswick rifle, that was issued for a short time to the British infantry. It was not a success, and soon replaced by the pattern 42 musket. This in turn was replaced by the Enfield musket, and then by the Enfield rifled musket that shot the Minie bullet. This saw its first action in the Crimean War of 1855/56.The Whitworth rifle was trialled by the School of Musketry at Hythe, Kent, and by selected unit or two, and found to be way too slow to 'reload and very prone to fouling. It was relegated to the use by the newly-formed Volunteer force as a target rifle, and it was in this form, and as a very accurate sporting rifle, that it found its place.
The idea that it could be used as a sharpshooting rifle was the brainchild of an unknown person, but was a good one. Only around 120 or so ever made it to the USA, something that the Union had cause to be grateful for.

Tac

Thank you for the history lesson.

 

[BillGabby1]

WoNA = War of Northern Agression.

IOW = in other words.

Hope this helps. Us old folks need all the help we can get, right?

By the way, I'm 71.

tac

No wonder it didn't make sense to me, we regularly refer to it as the War Between the States, and don't think of it in those terms "WoNA". I guess it's your European background that sees it differently, alternatively it was The war between the North and the South. Also States Rights.
Gabby

 

[Vintage rules]

No wonder it didn't make sense to me, we regularly refer to it as the War Between the States, and don't think of it in those terms "WoNA". I guess it's your European background that sees it differently, alternatively it was The war between the North and the South. Also States Rights.
Gabby

Hey Gabby are you son of the old western star Gabby Hayes, if so we met at The Black Canyon blackpowder shoot outside of Phoenix , Az. a number of years back. If so you were among the 35-40 people who joined our spaghetti feed in our camp spot. I had the Whitworth along at that shoot.

 

[BillGabby1]

Hey Gabby are you son of the old western star Gabby Hayes, if so we met at The Black Canyon blackpowder shoot outside of Phoenix , Az. a number of years back. If so you were among the 35-40 people who joined our spaghetti feed in our camp spot. I had the Whitworth along at that shoot.

No I'm not , just a long time fan of the old boy and when my beard is right I slightly resemble him, and since I tend to talk a lot both off and on the 'net, I picked up the Gabby part pretty easily. I am a transplanted native of AZ, moved there when I was 9 or 10 and lived there most of my life until moving to OR in '98. Been to Avery range before it was named that, back when it was Black Canyon Shooting range.
I always liked the sound of that, over Avery. Never knew the man so I couldn't relate.
Well I've run off at the mouth again, living up to my handle again.
Gabby

 

[tac]

Thank you for the history lesson.

The problem with a reply like that is that there is no way of telling whether it is sincere or sarcastic.

tac

 

[tac]

No wonder it didn't make sense to me, we regularly refer to it as the War Between the States, and don't think of it in those terms "WoNA". I guess it's your European background that sees it differently, alternatively it was The war between the North and the South. Also States Rights.
Gabby

In future I'll be sure to refer to it as the American Civil War, and that way, hopefully, I'll keep everybody happy.

tac

 

[Badger Jack]

In future I'll be sure to refer to it as the American Civil War, and that way, hopefully, I'll keep everybody happy.

tac

A bit out of date for a reply, but, respectfully, I must inform you that there are still MANY people BORN South of the Mason Dixon Line who still refer to the War of 1861~1865 as "The War of Northern Agression", as it was perceived by many that the Northern States wanted to keep manufacturing in the North in order to keep the South poor, and subservient to them.
TWoNA is perfectly acceptable, (except to those who want to obscure or change history).