Poll: Which Shotgun rounds to stock up on?

[Blitzkrieg]

I tend to stock up on 3" 000 Buck for my Saiga.

I'll be getting a Remington 870 at some point in the next 9 months and am thinking about experimenting with a few different loads to see what it likes, what I like and what we can agree on.

I'm particularly interested in checking out Centurion's Ball & Buck, Brenneke Tactical Home Defense Slug and some Fiocchi less lethal loads.

Less lethal is a bad idea legally, IMO.. if you are justified in pulling the trigger you should be shooting real ammo

 

[Daev]

I've been eying the Centurion Ball & Buck too... interesting "duplex" round. Just a (non-disparaging) question though, if things get to the point where it warrants you have to shoot someone(s), why would you use "less lethal" rounds... in my mind that means two things: 1) a wounded perpetrator who can still do harm (immediately or come back later), 2) a lawsuit by a surviving perpetrator.

I understand about having "options" in maybe dispersing "zombie packs" outside your house (who may be back when you go to sleep sometime), so I'd be interested "hearing" in your thoughts in the use of "less lethal" rounds and why you're considering them.

The Less lethal thing is inspired mostly by a situation some friends of mine got into where a schizophrenic homeless man kept harassing them and their house repeatedly, night after night, to the point of attempting to set one of them on fire and burn their house down.
ORS 161.219 strictly states that "a person is not justified in using deadly physical force upon another person unless the person reasonably believes that the other person is:

(1) Committing or attempting to commit a felony involving the use or threatened imminent use of physical force against a person; or

(2) Committing or attempting to commit a burglary in a dwelling; or

(3) Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force against a person."

In cases like one in which a crazy man is trying to burn your house down or in cases where chemical or biological implements are being used against your house, it could be argued that there is no threat of imminent physical force.

This doesn't make the threat any less real. Especially, when, as was the case with my friends, the Police are slow to do anything about the situation.

As for lawsuits... you're just as likely to get sued by a family member for killing a schizophrenic homeless man... so... eh... you're really damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[Stomper]

I appreciate the reply, and here's my take on that scenario. After attending the Woodburn Citizens' Police Academy a couple years back, we were taught the same use of force rules that the sworn LEO's have to abide by.

A person has to have the intent, the means, and the opportunity to cause death or serious bodily harm to another person to justify the use of deadly force.


1:
Attempting to set a person on fire is an attempt to cause/inflict death or serious bodily injury... he had an ignition source and fuel which he attempted to light at night. Right there is the intent, the means, and the opportunity... so deadly force would be justified.


2:
To burn your house down (I assume they were in it at the time) would be another attempt to cause/inflict death or serious bodily injury on a person... deadly force would be justified if you couldn't get the perpetrator to cease and desist (provided there was time for that).

IMO less lethal in this case would be the judicious use of a baseball bat to the arms and legs of this dunce... most schizo/sociopaths speak and understand baseball bat.

Please keep in mind I'm not a lawyer or an LEO (since the 80's anyway), but I can read/comprehend statute law and be taught (and implement) the procedures the LEO's use.

My new motto is: I'm not happy until you're not happy!

 

[Daev]

thanks for the info.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Agree with Stomper. Arson of a residence is a potentially lethal felony and if I remember right (IANAL) WA State law specifically states it as a justification to use lethal force.. to stop the attempt. If they run away you had better hold your fire, though

 

[Scrammer]

Left out "Buck & Ball" and "Buck & Slug" for "Zombie" control.

 

[Stef]

Less lethal is a bad idea legally, IMO.. if you are justified in pulling the trigger you should be shooting real ammo

This.

If it gets to the point where I'm planning to shoot, it's because I fear for my life. If I fear for my life, I'm going to use the best thing I have to neutralize the threat as quickly as possible and with my shotgun, that's 00 buck.

 

[Bon Sauvage]

My personal selections for SHTF stockpiling are 00 and #5 birdshot (lead of course) in 2 3/4" 12 gage loadings. Hopefully I already have enough of the former squirreled away.

 

[kenno]

I would tend towards the most lethal ammo you can get. heavy bird shot, slugs and buck. In a pinch you can trade 5 buckshot for 25 birdshot (everyone with a shotgun has birdshot).
Slugs penetrate windshields quite well, buckshot, like 55grn 223, does not.
The heavier shot does wonders when bounced off the pavement, wall, or gravel road surface to disrupt a massed attack at a distance.
You can bounce slugs as well, but they mostly penetrate except at shallow angles! In that particular instance 2 large balls would bounce better than one cylinderical slug

 

[Bon Sauvage]

I would tend towards the most lethal ammo you can get. heavy bird shot, slugs and buck. In a pinch you can trade 5 buckshot for 25 birdshot (everyone with a shotgun has birdshot).
Slugs penetrate windshields quite well, buckshot, like 55grn 223, does not.
The heavier shot does wonders when bounced off the pavement, wall, or gravel road surface to disrupt a massed attack at a distance.
You can bounce slugs as well, but they mostly penetrate except at shallow angles! In that particular instance 2 large balls would bounce better than one cylinderical slug

Yes, but who wants to bounce their balls off of the pavement?

 

[Stomper]

Yes, but who wants to bounce their balls off of the pavement?

lol.. I have to use a wheelbarrow to keep mine off the pavement!