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That scenario has minimal bearing on my situation, and hopefully I never have to be near another corpse.

Interesting premise for most on this forum, I surmise.
The purpose of a thought experiment is to strategize and surmise the flow of outcomes from the experiment.

The military doesn't actually think they'll battle zombies yet uses variations of zombie apocalypses as a scenario for their entry level strategists.

You don't have to play the game that I've laid out in this thread, but if you are going to respond, then I'm particularly interested in how others address the given scenario.

Thanks,
 
The purpose of a thought experiment is to strategize and surmise the flow of outcomes from the experiment.

The military doesn't actually think they'll battle zombies yet uses variations of zombie apocalypses as a scenario for their entry level strategists.

You don't have to play the game that I've laid out in this thread, but if you are going to respond, then I'm particularly interested in how others address the given scenario.

Thanks,
I still didn't see anywhere where it is defined whether there is rule of law or not in the scenario (unless I missed it). Makes a big difference. That's probably why there is so much variation. Some people are assuming rule of law and some are assuming no rule of law. As far as I can tell anyway.
 
I still didn't see anywhere where it is defined whether there is rule of law or not in the scenario (unless I missed it). Makes a big difference. That's probably why there is so much variation. Some people are assuming rule of law and some are assuming no rule of law. As far as I can tell anyway.

Point 1 is a Great Depression like scenario in today's day and age. There is still law but we can also assume that order is fleeting due to the disproportionate amount of lawbreaking to law enforcement.
 
Since we are rural, rather than urban, off the top of my head the rifle in our line-up I've dubbed "Space Cowboy" (suppressed Marlin 1894):

spacecowboy1-jpg-jpg-jpg.623751


Why?

  • Runs on readily available and reasonably economical .38 Special / .357 Magnum.
  • Rock solid reliable; literally, never have had a malfunction of any kind.
  • Minimal maintenance requirements.
  • No need for detachable magazines.
  • Accurate and has decent sights.
  • Good enough caliber for some larger game, but also can be loaded lighter, as need be.
  • Light and handy; both adults in our household can and do shoot it effectively.
  • Nine rounds of .357 Magnum on tap can be used for defense.
  • Stainless steel and polymer construction hold up in inclement weather.
  • Spare parts to keep on hand would be minimal and inexpensive.
  • With the can in place, and .38 Special loads, it is very quiet and could be used without scaring away animals, or attracting attention from two-legged varmints.

In the same vein, the SBRed lever-gun.

sbr.jpg
 
I have at least one gun per family member. I personally would rely on the 7.62x39mm, I have three that fire this round, I just acuired a drum mag that would be in one of them, the other is small and compact with 20rounders. But if that ammo is hard to find in such scenario, the 5.56 will suffice along with the 12ga. the 12ga will probably be the one that lasts the longest since I can reload them easy enough
 
Seems like most people that buy a gun get an itch...to buy more guns. Eventually we all have multiple.

But, for the sake of argument, let's assume a fairly bad SHTF scenario:
- Economic collapse a-la Great Depression
- You're out of work and about to be homeless
- You're not alone and have others to care for
- What you have with you needs to fit in the back of a pickup
- You need to plan for not having the cash to buy gas anymore (no mobility / extremely limited mobility)

You've already sold off most of the gun collection for the cash for necessities. But, which rifle(s) do you keep?

...

I'm curious what your choices are and why you would pick them?

First - I have enough $$ and income, even if I retire tomorrow, to keep paying my mortgage and provide for my family. So not homeless, not out of food, no reason to move (yet) and I have spare fuel in my shop. So I am not selling any of my guns or ammo.

But if I did sell off guns, it would be the revolver and lever action only. I might sell some of the semi-autos where I have duplication (e.g., some of my SIGs), but I would still keep enough for the family.
 
Ditto "bug in." Survival rate in a "Mad Max" bug out scenario eating rodents and MREs and WROL would be very low.

But if I must "bug out," it's hard to say. I would assume roads are impassible, and fuel is depleted regardless. So it's on foot. That would make light and quiet very important. So probably AR15 in 556, supplemented with Glock in 40 with 9mm barrel and mags for both. I doubt anyone in such a situation has much of a honest survival rate. Starvation, dehydration, exposure, medical issues alone would likely kill huge % of people. Then the unchecked violence another massive %. A fantasy to believe you'd survive long, really. Also a fantasy to believe you'd "forage" ammo. It'll be hoarded or gone. Survival is a year tops absent rapid restoration of trade and law and order.

Bug in with adequate preps, ability to make food and get clean water, and have some semblance of defense and such and a good community for trade and division of labor and I think you'd up your odds radically.
I have read that the fed.god estimates that in an infra-structure/economic type collapse, 90% of all Americans then resident in the States would be dead inside one year. NINETY PERCENT.
 
I will stick with the OP and go with two rifles. I would do a 22 for the reasons he stated. Small, can carry hundreds or thousands of rounds easily. Cheap. Can be used for hunting small game like squirrel and rabbit. Can be used for self defense IF NEEDED. And can be used by my kid when he gets old enough by the time something like this happens.
And I would also go with an AR15. If I have a little bit of time to stock up ammo, there is plenty of it and it's cheap. They're very easy to work in and parts are everywhere. If you have a catastrophic failure in your lower, pick one up from almost anywhere and just take the lower. Same for the upper. Or just take parts. I am confident that I could kill a deer with a 5.56 at 200 yards and in. It's light weight or can be and easily carried. My wife can use it or I can use it because they're so modular. Great for self defense.
 
The 45s would win out.
45/70s, 45ACP, and 45 round ball, when Im down to rocks and holy black.

I could hunt till my knees fell off with just a 1911 and a flinter.

The 405 grain flat nosed pill going 1450fps will penetrate 6ft 8 inches of meat @ 100 yards.
They gotta be good for something. We make them from 340gr to 540gr.

If it is SHTF, then there is no time for shooting twice.
 
I'll take my flintlock Fowler. As I'm sure others have said, I can dig up everything to make that gun go boom. May not be the best for self defense but I think starvation would be more of a threat in some situations and the Fowler would take down squirrels to grizz.
 
I'll take my flintlock Fowler. As I'm sure others have said, I can dig up everything to make that gun go boom. May not be the best for self defense but I think starvation would be more of a threat in some situations and the Fowler would take down squirrels to grizz.

Most of the time a person in a SHTF situation that requires the use of firearms would be served well by hunting firearms - a rimfire, a centerfire and a shotgun - but the few times you would need to deal with a human threat, you would really be best served by a semi-auto military type firearm and sufficient ammo.
 
Minimum of three guns:

1) .22 rimfire - preferably one that can easily handle shorts, longs, long rifles - e.g., some bolt or lever action tube feeds can do this fine.

2) Centerfire semi-auto defense rifle in 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 or 7.62x51

3) Centerfire semi-auto defense pistol in 9mm or .45 ACP, or maybe .40 S&W - preferably 9mm with the right ammo.

Optionally a defensive shotgun in addition to the others - one that has chokes so it can be used for hunting too.

The first three firearms can be carried by one person - if chosen wisely; i.e., the .22 rimfire can be a pistol.

But a lightweight rifle is fine and usually has better sights (more sight radius).

I have a breakdown single shot .22 rimfire that will shoot any .22 RF (not magnums), weighs less than one pound and when broken down the length is 16" - so it is almost nothing to bring along in a pack. Which would leave the centerfire rifle and pistol as the primary firearms. I also have a 10/22 in a MagPul takedown 'Backpacker' stock, that, with a Ramline barrel weighs less than 4 pounds. A Browning Buckmark with a TacSol aluminum barrel and scope would be good too.

So I see no reason to rely only on a .22 rimfire and I would feel undergunned if I did. I would want at least a centerfire rifle of some sort to effectively reach out past one hundred yards.
 
I am not a hunter. I know you guys take it very seriously so take this out of ignorance not offense. A lot of people pushing 22lr for hunting small game in SHTF. That implies limited mobility to me. How much small game is there in Beaverton? If you have the ability to drive to a hunting spot, why not keep driving to where SHNHTF?

My choice is a large caliber pistol to move around locally and 5.56 when at home. Disregarding anything I may have posted 5 pages or a month ago.
 
I am not a hunter. I know you guys take it very seriously so take this out of ignorance not offense. A lot of people pushing 22lr for hunting small game in SHTF. That implies limited mobility to me. How much small game is there in Beaverton? If you have the ability to drive to a hunting spot, why not keep driving to where SHNHTF?

My choice is a large caliber pistol to move around locally and 5.56 when at home. Disregarding anything I may have posted 5 pages or a month ago.

Too risky & time consuming.

Poop hitting the turbine, in most contexts implies no rule of law.

No rule of law would make traveling (anywhere) a challenge. Not just simply due to "zombie meth head bikers", might also be due to any organized pockets of "law and order".

They won't know you, you won't know them. You won't know they're "good guys", and they won't know your a "good guy" either.

Mayhaps after a bit you all might exchange bonifides, quasi trust & safe pass thru. Mayhaps not. Or worse yet, that quasi trust may evaporate the following week due to some change in there (or your) happenstance.

Consider the various areas which you would have to pass thru on a non interstate 30 minute drive today.

That same 30 minute drive amidst a poop fest could literally be 2 days afoot just to get there...if you could.
 
I am not a hunter. I know you guys take it very seriously so take this out of ignorance not offense. A lot of people pushing 22lr for hunting small game in SHTF. That implies limited mobility to me. How much small game is there in Beaverton? If you have the ability to drive to a hunting spot, why not keep driving to where SHNHTF?

My choice is a large caliber pistol to move around locally and 5.56 when at home. Disregarding anything I may have posted 5 pages or a month ago.

SHTF varies - for the PNW it could be something as simple as getting sick/injured and losing your job with no UI benefits, then not being able to pay the rent/mortgage and living out of your car. A LOT more likely for most people than having to deal with a zombie apocalypse. In which case guns probably won't help much and may actually be a hindrance.

As for hunting, well I live on a mountain outside of Portland, and currently plenty of wildlife here. I can literally get meat with a well aimed rock.

20170113_100538.jpg
 

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